I think the guy was just a pompous jerk on a power trip. My husband hires so many people and gender is never a consideration. Good luck to your daughter.
And then these companies complain that they don’t see qualified women… grr. Sounds like her elevator pitch for herself could use a bit of tweaking, but that is true for most 19 year olds. Moving on to the next company is best. She also could submit a resume via email to the company – a different person might read it.
I agree with the suggestion in #19. College career fairs provide a valuable resource for employers to gain early access to qualified candidates. They want access to these students and most don’t want to jeopardize that opportunity. A lot of employers send both a female and male rep especially in STEM areas where they want to attract more women – at least that was the case when my own D attended for internship opportunities.
LinkedIn is also a good avenue for connecting with companies. She could find a different recruiter for her company of interest, or even an engineer in her department or division of interest. They might even be female… although I do agree with other posters that the recruiter was just a garden variety jerk, and there are plenty of men who do not discriminate women when hiring.
Many companies have dedicated college recruiters, or college recruiting groups, that are better suited to dealing with college students and discussing internships and entry level positions. These are easy to find on LinkedIn.
I think tred carefully… to assume that the recruiter was being sexist could be a very wrong assumption. It is one thing to mentally mark for yourself “oh that recruiter was sexist” with verbalyzing your opinion to the career office or others. There could be dozens of reasons why her encounter was not optimal for her that are not rooted in sexism.
We weren’t there, so don’t know. As came up on another thread, sometimes kids don’t realize why x happened or even what was really up.
It’s so possible the other guy he turned to (1st post) had some significance or priority, maybe was asked to cut the line. Etc.
Career services is a good idea, to learn how to present herself, from folks who routinely advise the age group. Any complaint matters less than the skills she acquires.
I think showing true interest, and how it makes the other guy want to have a meaningful convo, is a something kids can learn and polish. Like college apps, it’s more than “here I am and here’s what I want.” (There’s even a Dale Carnegie aspect, lol.)
“…she gave him a 30 -45 second answer, that she had memorized directly from the corporate website.” See how the career folks suggest she handle/edit this next time. Again, same as a college applicant interaction.
That company rep may have stood through dozens of kids who wanted an internship, said something from the website (again, the college app parallel, repeating a college’s mission back to them.) Maybe he did resort to flinging a gauntlet. But there are ways to break the ice.
I agree it’s great this young gal is trying.
@lookingforward “”…she gave him a 30 -45 second answer, that she had memorized directly from the corporate website." See how the career folks suggest she handle/edit this next time. Again, same as a college applicant interaction."
I agree that she can be more thorough with that. She did not spend much time on each company because there were over 100 companies coming, and she prepared for about 10 that she though could be a fit. I think she will prepare better in the future, Still, I was primarily amused that he disagreed with what his company says it does. lol
@momofthreeboys “There could be dozens of reasons why her encounter was not optimal for her that are not rooted in sexism.”
I agree. I certainly don’t know enough to claim that it was sexism. My impression is that incidents like this happen to men too, but are still more likely to happen to women. Still, it is impossible to tell the jerks from the sexists, and many people who behave in a sexist way are not consciously sexist.
I also understand that it is very surprising to many people how much any strong 19 year old engineering student already knows about science, advanced math, and actually working in a hands on way with various metals, ceramics, and polymers. Then when you make the 19 year old student a female, a lot of those people move from surprise to shock. They don’t mean to be sexist, but it is outside their experience. That is further compounded when the person doesn’t look the part.
One parent recently said to me, “She looks more like a sorority girl than an engineer.” I decided that in their mind it was supposed to be a compliment, and did not to reply, but considered several responses: Who knew she could be both? Would you say to a parent that their son looks more like a frat boy than an engineer? What do engineers look like? Was she supposed to have coke-bottle glasses, a calculator and a pocket protector?
I do know that for the career fair, she was professionally dressed with a navy blue blazer and pants, a white shirt and professional looking hair and makeup. (she sent me a pic ).
Whew, that sorority gal comment could qualify as sexist. Eek.
There are lots and lots of women in stem. Some are senior, which will influence men’s awareness. And for many young men, the presence of qualified classmates and co-workers defies old stereotypes. Or their mothers, sisters and wives/GFs have professional jobs.
Competent and driven women need to be sure they aren’t having their own knee jerk, over simplified reaction that they are being treated differently simply because they’re women. It’s one of our responsibilities as mature professionals.
To me, sexist is a subset of jerk.
I agree with the suggestion in #19. With any luck word will get back to HR in the company that they aren’t doing a good job. I think it’s also likely her presentation could be improved. (What 19 year old has that down pat?) Sometimes what a company actually does is not what they put on their websites. There’s always a lag! So Mr. Recruiter may have been right on that account. 
Good luck to her!
I represent my large tech company at career fairs (in fact, I am currently away on a recruiting trip as we speak!) and I just finished up a career fair on Friday.
I do agree that many people at the booth during the career fair are often people who are not HR, like myself, and have no formal HR training. Your company should train you at least in the basics of how to talk to students at a career fair, though, so that’s no excuse. We had two calls in advance of this trip with the basics of what we were looking for and how to talk to students.
But the biggest thing is that career fairs are supposed to be information gathering expeditions on the part of the students and it shouldn’t matter if they’ve done X hours of research on our company and know Y and Z. That’s for interviews, sure, but not the 5 minutes I’m speaking to them at a career fair. I - and I suspect other good representatives as well - am FAR more interested in hearing about the students’ qualifications and interests, since part of the point of the fair is to identify candidates who might be good choices for jobs and internships. And part of my job is to be there to answer questions and provide information about my company so the students can make informed decisions, as well as to be a good and polite representative of my company to make it a place that these students want to come work. There are dozens to hundreds of companies at a good career fair. I don’t expect the students to have thoroughly researched them all.
There’s nothing at all wrong with a sophomore engineering major introducing herself with “I’m Marcy, I’m a sophomore polymer engineering major and I’m interested in internships.” I’d say some variation of that is the way 80-90% of our prospects at fairs introduce themselves, too. Especially at the sophomore level I don’t expect them to have their career plan mapped out.
The incident could’ve been sexism or not. It’s impossible to tell, but one thing I do know (as it was the focus of my doctoral research :D) is that agonizing over it is highly distracting and psychologically damaging. I’ve done it, too, as a black woman who works in tech. My go-to is unless it’s really blatant and obvious to assume best intentions (or at least neutral intentions) and move on with doing whatever I need to do. That’s a terrible thing to have to do and I feel bad giving that advice, but it’ll preserve her sanity, which is the most important thing.
Sounds like the recruiter was a jerk rather than a case of industry sexism. The engineering and tech companies I’ve worked for would love to have more women working for them.
If your daughter is still interested in the company in question, maybe have her send them a short email explaining what happened, and asking if there was anyone available who could answer some questions. Don’t accuse the company of sexism. I wouldn’t be surprised if they reach out and interview her for an internship or something like that.
Even if she was the 100th kid in line, then you should not say “Do you even know what we do” but something like “Are you familiar with our company?” and then I would only say that if they were an accounting firm and you were applying for materials.
I echo what others have said: may have been along day and he may have seen a lot of students who don’t know what they want, just that they want a job. At my large employer it is usually an alum doing the job fairs, some are better and more enthusiastic than others. There is no training. Some look at it as free trip and really have little interest in recruiting. I will say this, my large engineering firm is very much interested in hiring more women, to the detriment of the young men I suspect. Take the great advice given by others and she will do well.
I was part of the big-law-firm recruiting process for years, as a student, an employer rep, and as an advisor. Sexist crap is not unusual. Absolutely let the hosts of a career fair know that an employer was rude. You can’t always know what motivated a particular bad interaction, but when you speak up, patterns emerge that make a sexism/racism problem clear. Schools sponsoring employer events can then address the problem directly.
My niece works as an engineer for a large company. She encounters blatant sexism from time to time. I do not like the fact that this still happens after so many years when there have been women in the STEM workforce. Forty years ago, I imagined it would be better everywhere now. Companies do differ in this regard, and individual groups within the companies differ too.
A young woman in polymer engineering is likely to find that she is in high enough demand that she can just write off recruiters who are rude to her, without needing to identify the root cause of the rudeness.
A few suggestions: Your daughter should not let this throw her. In my opinion, the suggestions that she needs to rethink her initial approach/elevator pitch are misplaced, because worrying about that is likely to be counter productive. “Hi, I am a sophomore majoring in engineering with a concentration in polymers, and I am interested in a summer internship” is a 100% fine introduction.
Any sensible person who recruits engineers to do engineering is not going to be looking first and foremost for the kind of polish one might want in applicants for McKinsey, say. Polish is a plus, but a sensible recruiter is first and foremost going to be looking for competence and creativity (within the bounds of practicality).
Also–sad to say–your daughter may need to develop a thick skin with regard to sexism she encounters on the job. I still run into it after many years–whenever someone is unfamiliar with my work, to start.
Here’s what I’d do, if I ran into that same kind of recruiter: If I gave him the web site statement about what the company does, and he said, “Not exactly,” I would say, “Wow, that is weird, because that is what your web site says your company does. I guess the people in communications or PR do not understand what the engineers at your company really do. How do you cope with that?”
Always pays to put one’s best foot forward, not assume. At a college career fair, that might mean not going with the default. The circumstances are a sort of cattle run. Most kids are there for job prospects or internships. They want to make reasonable connections, not just information seek. Be a little brighter and shinier than the 99 others.
I did once get an offer after admitting I’d never heard of the company. But it was at a trade show, a fun conversation with the two guys repping their firm to potential clients. I was there as a fully qualified, seasoned rep for my company. Big difference. And luck that our personalities meshed.
No one expects a kid to know all 100 (say) companies at the fair. But you can more deeply learn about the, say, 6 or 10 that might be the more productive chats.
Better to be prepared and maybe find them jumping “just” because you’re female, than assume all you need to do is show up and that’s enough.
Obviously, some of us have different thoughts.
At my university currently, engineers–specifically–do not need to be “brighter and shinier” in their self-presentation to secure good internships. I view that as an anxiety-provoking holdover from top college admissions.
Engineering employment tends to be cyclical, and of course there are periods when it’s tough to find a job, and one needs every possible edge. This does not seem to be such a period, however. Admittedly, the Dupont/Dow merger could be affecting the overall demand for polymer engineers. The faculty at your daughter’s school would be good people to ask about that. My guess is that the effects are marginal at the entry stage.
Making engineering students nervous about how they are coming across is potentially counter-productive. I think that the book by Canadian Astronaut Chris Hadfield offers good advice to young people looking for jobs (and after they have landed one). One of his chapters is called “Be a Zero.” If you are in a high-demand field, you don’t need to try to come across as better than everyone else. In fact, the attempt to outshine 99 others could potentially backfire (into the negatives), unless one is very skilled in knowing how to convey that impression. This is to say nothing of how an ingrained practice of trying to look better than everyone else will come across, after one has landed a job. Quite a few companies have 360-degree performance reviews.
I’ve had a large number of engineering majors in my classes recently. They are not experiencing appreciable difficulty in finding internships or employment at present. I suspect that this is true at many universities of this type–large public research university, fairly large engineering program, fairly tough requirements to get into any of the engineering majors. Here, the gate-keeping to get into an engineering major and stay there limits the supply of potential employees, and ensures that the engineering majors have a reasonable level of qualification in STEM subjects.
It is possible that the OP’s daughter did not get much interest from that specific company rep, due to being a sophomore and nothing more nefarious. Perhaps he had been told that the company only wanted current juniors, that time around. Perhaps he forgot that current sophomores tend to turn into juniors less than a year from now.
Not talking about being a prancing pony, the kid who knows it all. Nor competing as if it’s a free for all race and you need to elbow others off the track.
But my belief that one should be ready. It’s no different than other real life interactions. Didn’t say outshine, but be “a little brighter and shinier.” That means alert, aware, able. One who will be remembered, for the right reasons, not simply hand across a resume. Far better than assuming you just line up. (Kids do need to learn this lesson.) No need to obsess.
And then, if questioned (or other,) you have a little more to respond with. And if you don’t need to pull it out, you don’t. But you were prepared.
Being a zero isn’t about leaning *back. * It’s about not being a -1or +1. Three bears: not too little, not too much, just right. Breathe, sure, know your competence. But be ready. Zero does include curiosity, learning how to be competent and then build trust.
This is also a valuable lesson for many women. A life lesson.
My experience has been the complete opposite (I am also an engineer, but male). Hiring managers here are actively trying to recruit more women to improve the M:F ratio, so they have a moderate-to-strong preference for female applicants, even going so far as to up the bar for male applicants.
I can’t imagine my situation is a one-off either, as engineering in general is a very male dominated field, and most male engineers would prefer having more female engineers around to work with.
@QuantMech Engineering employment tends to be cyclical, and of course there are periods when it’s tough to find a job, and one needs every possible edge. This does not seem to be such a period, however. Admittedly, the Dupont/Dow merger could be affecting the overall demand for polymer engineers.
Hopefully, Dupont and Dow merger won’t have much of an impact on her. She is a material science engineer with a polymers minor, so the degree covers metallurgy and many materials other than polymers. It should allow her to adapt if something happens to make one skill unpopular. She also worked into her schedule a class in Java coding and one data structures ( I think with SQL?), just in case. She tried to be thoughtful about he classes.
@QuantMech “Here, the gate-keeping to get into an engineering major and stay there limits the supply of potential employees, and ensures that the engineering majors have a reasonable level of qualification in STEM subjects.”
I hope this is true. She was a typical, but not standout, engineering applicant: 34 Math, 33 Science, 29 Reading, and 31 Writing. AP Calc AB 5, AP Chem 4 at a top 50 university with a 3.58 GPA and the average for engineers there is 3.1. She is a solid STEM student.
I’ll suggest that she find out which companies hired material science engineers last year and reach out to those companies in addition to following up with the companies from the career fair. Hopefully, that will give her a solid chance to find an opportunity.
Thank you for your thoughts everyone!