Maybe not compared to some other majors, but it’s still not easy. I had about 25 internship apps last year, 2 interviews, 1 offer. For this year I’m looking at about 20 full-time apps so far, 2 interviews. Still applying like mad.
@bodangles What is your major and minor, if any?
It seems to me that internships can be more difficult to get than coop positions. They are different in nature and require less of a commitment and more people are competing for the number of positions. The advantage is that they normally do not interrupt your four years of study and get you some experience in the field you are interested in. The advantage to coops are they normally pay well, give you better experience in the field you are interested in and can be a foot in the door with the company you work for. The major disadvantages is that they can disrupt the flow of courses and add time (not course work time) to graduate. This is only my opinion but I think companies look at coop work as direct work experience where internships are considered more experiential learning.
I’m not sure how the Dupont/Dow merger will affect things. Dow Chemical just recently acquired Dow Corning a year or so ago and that seems to have gone OK. I understand after the merger they plan to split the company into 5 different divisions (or companies). IMO the biggest affect may be felt in Wilmington Delaware or Midland MI rather than at the plant level.
Chemical engineering. Last year I was a junior, high GPA, no prior internships, three summers retail experience, club member and volunteer, had recently started research but had only done a little bit by the time of the career fair.
Caveats:
There are definitely people who were more involved than me, and whose activities were more engineering related (I’m not on a Formula SAE car-building team or anything). That career fair was also my first, and as a shy introvert, it’s hard for me to go sell myself to people.
Chris Hadfield’s book is good to read. I’d recommend it to your daughter, Much2Learn. My prediction is that she will do very well in terms of employment. Her qualifications are excellent.
lookingforward, you seem to be suggesting in a roundabout way that Much2Learn’s daughter thought that you just had to line up? She actually memorized what they said about the company’s business on their web site. She looks pretty bright and shiny to me as it is. I would not criticize her approach at all.
Some of my relatives advise that it is worthwhile to get a Master’s degree in engineering. I have known a few people who went that route. My niece has not done that yet, and it doesn’t seem to be affecting her career prospects. But she might go for a Master’s in the future.
No, I think it’s clear she did try to prep. And she sounds like a great kid. I’d love to hear of her eventual success. But memorizing the blurb they wrote, repeating it back to them, isn’t quite it.
None of this is as simple as “criticizing” or the prior comment about kids obsessing. It’s about some growth, the awareness to refine. It’s entirely possible to have a discussion about approaches, without assuming that’s devastating. Or that the first approach is the best.
Doesn’t science teach us that?
I wanted to throw in a couple of comments about Chris Hadfield’s “be a zero” philosophy. It’s related to self-presentation, so it’s relevant to the discussion on the thread.
Obviously, Hadfield wasn’t literally setting out to be “zero.” Being admitted to the astronaut corps is just an early hurdle toward getting onto crews, so there is continuous competition. As I recall, in the “zero” chapter, Hadfield mentioned that he was the junior member of a three-man crew in a simulation that was close to wrapping up. He noticed that one of the switches was set wrong, and just commented, “Hold.” The other men caught the error and fixed it. Later, Hadfield said nothing about this, and the other men also said nothing [the zero part]. But at a subsequent astronaut/NASA administrator gathering, one of the other men mentioned to a NASA administrator (in Hadfield’s presence) that Hadfield was very observant. He thinks this whole situation helped with his subsequent selection for a crew (his first of several, and eventually command of the International Space Station).
There a a couple of circumstances that are necessary for this “zero” strategy to work: You have to work with people who understand the importance of teamwork. You have to work with people who are themselves observant, who understand the value of others’ contributions so that they recognize them, and who are willing to acknowledge the contributions, when that may matter. A workplace does not automatically guarantee these things. However, I think that engineering groups in many companies function more like this than groups in some other settings.
I should also acknowledge that it’s a bit tricky for a woman to negotiate the job terrain. It may require extra attentiveness to see what strategies work best, and not to assume that they are totally independent of gender–though it would certainly be great if one could find such a company!
Sure, it’s good to continuously refine your approach. It’s unlikely that a person’s first elevator pitch will be the best. On the other hand, I think the best advice for an introvert (as many engineers are) is not to worry about having said the wrong thing, and just get back in the game, doing what seems most reasonable each time. A student applicant might focus on just having a brief conversation with the recruiter and not trying to optimize every sentence she/he (the applicant) says.
Coming across as natural is probably better than coming across as too studied–or coming across as following The Guide to Optimal First Sentences at Career Fairs, which is available from the “Fearmonger’s Shop in the Dales.” (Homage to Garrison Keillor, and just my view.) I’ve advised a lot of people, including colleagues, that they would be better off relaxing a bit when they are meeting someone or giving a presentation. (Obviously this depends on the group one is in.)