<p>And yes, we do have a slightly risque magazine called H-bomb. I would hardly call it porn, though.</p>
<p>my bad
<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=357342[/url]”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=357342</a></p>
<p>My friend broke her arm at a foam party.</p>
<p>Ahhh, the power of the internet. I think it’s enlightening to have these links to other examples of outrageous party behavior – almost always fueled by excessive drinking – on other college campuses. (My intention was not to shine a light exclusively on Duke.)</p>
<pre><code> Fess up, other college students and college parents.
Let’s get a widespread picture of what is being tolerated on college campuses (okay, on or off campus) because after all, either we as parents, or the endowments, or the government are spending an awful lot of money on college education nowadays. If making these excesses a little more public will encourage college administrations to rein in the craziness, then let’s post away.
As one poster commented, “let the buyer beware.” As the “buyers” of college educations for our kids, it would be helpful to have a true picture of what is happening on various campuses, and what if anything, college administrations are doing about it.
I suspect it’s a dilemma for some, because many students will select a campus based not only on the academic offerrings but whether they think they will have a good time for the four years they are there. And I think there’s an acknowledgement that we’re talking about college students here, not heads of state.
As poster Tweety 114 said regarding the party scene, “Immature, yes, but hey, we’re like 20 years old and we’re still figuring things out.”
Still, maybe it’s time for the grown ups to step in and say where the line is.
</code></pre>
<p>Makes one wonder if some of these college kids just think the outragous partying is just a part of the social educational aspects of college - too bad they couldn’t get college credits for this - only kidding - but seriously - many college kids feel entitled to do what ever makes their boat float - once in a lifetime kinda thing - cuz when it’s over - for most - it will be over when real life hits them in the face.</p>
<p>JAZZY it is good to see that this is not just at Duke - it is a universal issue in US colleges - maybe one good thing that may come of it will be that the example of Duke will effect other schools to take a good look at their own campus cultures and moral issues and do something - or is that just a pipe dream?!? Not sure - other schools have started to really dig into this and consider how this could effect them and thinking about changes in policies - so ya - that is a good thing.</p>
<p>The high tech of the internet sure has opened up a pandora’s box of sorts - 10 years ago - this would have been a day long headline and then off to other things.</p>
<p>The moral structure of this generation is not that different from the last one -but I think just a bit more into the shock value than in the past.</p>
<p>
as an upcoming college student, i would have to agree. when discussing college with my friends, our conversation doesn’t center on what classes we’ll take or what our majors will be, we mostly talk about the social scene, how much we’ll party, the inevitable alcohol consumption and our desire to somehow come out of it all with at least our virginity…</p>
<p>Easy does it there, jazzymom, what you are proposing – telling the young where the line is – is, is nothing short of revolutionary! Dare we do it?! I do hope their self-esteem won’t suffer too much…</p>
<p>I think the question isn’t whether this goes on everywhere. Obviously wherever you go to school, there are going to be crazy parties with lots of alcohol and sex (except maybe BJU / Wheaton IL etc). The question for any given school is, how pervasive is the crazy partying? What is the overall culture like? Is it possible to have a social life without getting trashed and hooking up every week? I spend a lot of time at UChicago, so I know that, although there was some press about the Scav Hunt party, that was definitely not the “norm” there. Similarly, while Fox news would love to trash my fine alma mater (Brown) by sneaking its producers and filming on private University property without permission from the school, while making completely false claims about our funding and calling our administrators pinheads, I know from experience here that SexPowerGod is not the be-all end-all of social life on campus.</p>
<p>I think the issue is a campus’ overall social culture and norms, and how much the culture tolerates deviation from the norm, rather than the behavior of a few students, or the occasional behavior of a number of students.</p>
<p>
Because treating college students like they’re children will really teach them to make decisions on their own. Good work there.</p>
<p>We are most of us over 18. Society considers us adults. Isn’t it time we made our own decisions? Maybe they’re stupid decisions–but doesn’t everyone have to make a few mistakes before he figures things out properly? Will anyone ever learn anything about life with his mother holding his hand for him forever? </p>
<p>There’s a learning curve for everything. When you, say, play baseball for the first time, presumably, you miss every ball that comes at you. But the only way you get good at it eventually is by doing it again and again. If your mom bats for you every time, you still suck at it 3 years later.</p>
<p>Do you really think we’ll learn what our personal boundaries are if no one will let us figure it out? Are we not allowed to be beginners at life? And should we be blamed for that?</p>
<p>And is there, perhaps, a possibility that what was right for our parents is not right for us? That we live in a different world now and feel differently about things? Is it perhaps possible that only we ourselves can ever truly know what is right for us? That maybe it may take us years to figure out, but maybe no one else can do it for us?</p>
<p>Respect us enough to let us fall flat on our faces sometimes. We’ll get over it and learn from the experience what our values are. And maybe they won’t be the same as our parents’. But then, did you ever want your children to be carbon copies of you?</p>
<p>I guess if you had mentioned phoning for bail…hiring a lawyer also. If those had come into your discussion I could have taken you more seriously. Good thoughts, but not complete.</p>
<p>Also, emeraldkitty: Eh, people have such a loose definition of porn. Throw in a couple of naked people and it’s scandalous. (Maybe nudity just doesn’t seem like a big deal to me–I’m at home sick in my room, and I haven’t worn clothes in days.) </p>
<p>I’d be more willing to call something porn if there are pictures of copulation or other sexual acts in it. Just nudity seems tame to me–a little tantalizing sometimes, but nothing particularly shocking.</p>
<p>I haven’t seen the Harvard magzaine- I don’t have as much of a problem if something is stated as being about sex and then is, than something like Rolling Stone- which used to be a social issues music magazine and now features scantily clad actresses who are a little too close to 18- ( or even not close enough)
I also am more concerned about substance abuse in young adults than I am about sexual activity, although I think precautions may go by th ewayside if under the influence.
I realize that there are varying degrees of pornography- but when I was growing up a picture of a barebreasted woman ( if not in National Geographic) was pornography.
Now the boundary keeps getting lowered, and popular singers like Kayne West aren’t embarrased about posing as Christ on the cover of a magazine or about talking about their porn addiction.
I actually do think porn desensitizes people as well as contributes to more violence against women and children</p>
<p>I also try and control the “raising of the bar” in my own family
No limos for middle school graduation- no renting hotel rooms for senior prom- no fast cars for college graduation.
I miss the days when making out in the back seat ( with your pants fastened) was pretty “hot”.
Seriously- I am far from being a prude- but I do believe in respecting yourself and in personal space.
I hope my kids do too</p>
<p>KITKAT - you are pretty much right on in your post - and yup - we parents pretty much went thru the same/similar - and used the exact same words too LOL.</p>
<p>We had an interesting experience with our gal and the college thing - she goes to a pretty good party school - which we were aware of before she even saw the place. That said tho… it still was a good fit for her in many many ways.</p>
<p>So off she goes - far from home - now… we are not a prudish family by any means - but still hold onto a few inhibited attitudes - as does she as well. She arrives - knowing not a soul of the 22,000+ who are on campus. The move-in was interesting to say the least - roomie - an only child - mis-pris - sorry - but a bit of a snob to put it nicely. Intros went fair and dorm life began.</p>
<p>Seeking out new friends in a new environment is an interesting feat. They tolerate each other - and start doing some of the social things around school -the parties - frat blasts - football games - etc… and we start hearing ooo soooo nice stories about the roomie - tho our gal is still trying to feel her way to find folks she has stuff in common with. Then the pics start to arrive - from the roomies MOM no less - the party pics - the dancing on the tables - the belly shots - the jello tub wrestling - and on and on… minus my gal - but including her gal. The amount of skin exposed in her manner of dress should have been a dead give away - she liked to expose her body to the masses - so to speak.</p>
<p>So I ask my gal what is going on - and boy do I get an earful!!! The roomy is a drink til u drop kinda gal - no matter what the activity is - she is in the middle of it - and along with that comes the other social issues - the strange guys in the dorm room - the drunk calls - the drama - oooooooooo the drama!!! Then the crowd of roomies pals increases in size - as do the high jinx and some real bad behavior that ensues.</p>
<p>Where is my gal in all this?? Not hanging with the roomie - thank goodness. Sure - she figured out after 1st semester the whats and wheres she did not want to be involved in and started to discover other friends who had other kinds of interests - ya they still party and have fun - and ya - they get a bit rambunxious at times - but not in any real out-landish way - but the roomie continues down the crazed path she is carving for herself.</p>
<p>My gal discovers alot of cool school things and gets involved - finds lots of awesome folks who share many of her passions - which she has by this time discovered - and spends alot less time in the dorm - and actually avoids the roomy as much as she can. She is tired of finding strange folks in her bed - or somebody puking at the door - or the 3am door bangs - or the drunken roomy staggering in at 4am.</p>
<p>Sprng break comes along - my gal takes off for an everglades trip - what a great idea!!! Roomie takes off for a college week at the beach with 100,000 thousand other kids - to drink and party and bong and whatever else she can fine - gee - 2 friends get arrested for open drunkedness - car gets really messed up - lots of pics taken in various states of dress - yup they are on the web!!! </p>
<p>They parted ways at the end of that year - our gal moves on - finding even more interesting people and places and experiences. Boy was that first year an education in of itself. The roomie continues the same type of behavior - gets worse tho - another story for another day. My gal still parties to a lesser degree - has realized that partying is not the end all in college - there are other things to learn about - gee - ya think?!? </p>
<p>She is no angel - and is certainly enjoying her college years - but at least has discovered that choices are certainly there to be made - and it depends on each person to make the choices that are good for them. She now completely disagrees with the choices of her 1st roomy - and is glad she ‘woke up’ in time to find great friends and experiences and opportunities that she has. Sure - has not been an easy road at times - and thank goodness - but this is her life - our gal has not done anything that she will look back on and say she is ashamed of - tho I am sure there are few memories she would rather forget.</p>
<p>Yup - her life - her choices - at least fairly good ones. If I was her roomies mom - haha - she would have been home and tar’d and feathered. OOO our gal left for school with certain threats hanging over her head - but being far from home - how does one really know what ones’ kids are really doing. I have no objections to my gals learning experience and yup - that learning curve is straight up KITKAT!! :)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/031117/17barone.htm[/url]”>http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/031117/17barone.htm</a></p>
<p>Lol Here…</p>
<p>I recently met an elderly lady - highly educated - and we got talking about morals of college kids. She told me a story about herself - how when she was in college - how her parents were appauled when she decided to major in dance - she did go on to be a profession dancer in New York - but in the mean time how her parents reaction somewhat drove her towards her passion. They basically told her that her thinking was sinful and outragous - against everything they had ever taught her - and she would be bound by the burden of hells doors - for exposing herself to the less than virtuous profession of dancing/theatre. She had to ultimately seperate herself from her family to pursue her passion - was eventually disowned by her family - for going against the grain of what nice young women should be doing. </p>
<p>It saddened me to hear her story - she made choices for herself - but lost alot in the meantime - but she was a very successful dancer in her time - was kinda too bad her family could not see and share the benefits of that success.</p>
<p>Kitkat:
Do you really think there should be no line?</p>
<p>Are the boundaries of behavior to be set individually by everyone doing what they choose to do so they can learn from their mistakes?</p>
<p>And should university officials (that’s who I meant by “grown ups” in my previous post) have no say in regulating the behavior choices of quasi-adult students when those choices may endanger themselves or others and jeopardize the reputation of the institution? </p>
<p>Frankly, the big difference between then — college in the 70s – and now for me is that now I’m paying for it. A lot. I just think there’s too much money involved, too much of an investment being made, to turn a blind eye to the excesses in the social culture of many colleges. </p>
<p>And to date, I think the guidebooks and campus visits have been woefully inadequate in providing families – students and parents both – with enough information to make informed decisions about this aspect of college life.</p>
<p>No, I don’t want to hold my son’s hand through college. I agree that going off to college is a time to experiment and perhaps fall on your face and learn some painful lessons. </p>
<p>But I do think there should be a line. Maybe the students themselves, knowing their campus and the culture they want to support, should draw those lines. But then, they ought to be enforced and not winked at by the university administration. Maybe then we would not see those sad stories about the freshman pledge who choked on his own vomit after a night of binge-drinking.</p>
<p>Read Jeepmom’s missive and ask if you would want to see some lines drawn if that had been your roommate.</p>
<p>If kids want to get wasted and knocked up, no one is going to stop them, no matter what regulations are put into place. If you don’t want your sons to mistreat women and your daughters to dress/act like sluts, then the only thing you can do is instill the right values in them from the very beginning.</p>
<p>There should be lines. Of course there should.</p>
<p>Violence should not be tolerated. Neither should sexual harassment.</p>
<p>If people want to have lots of consentual sex, though, how is that at all the university’s business?</p>
<p>Consensual sex - between 2 legally aged - well educated in ALL the possible consequences and are able to live with any said outcome - consenting adults - the school has no say in that - unless of course the school has a code of conduct that forbids it LOL</p>
<p>It’s when that line is crossed - when it becomes non-consensual - that is a huge problem in alot of situations in colleges - thank you to alcohol and drugs and date rape drugs - then yes - that should be a schools business - the health/safety and general welfare of it’s students - to a degree.</p>
<p>Right. F**king some chick who’s so drunk she can’t hold her head up is not only morally reprehensible but also illegal. Any guy who does that can and should be arrested for rape. And locked up somewhere nasty, the ■■■■■■■. Same goes with those foul date-rape drugs–which I consider even worse.</p>
<p>So it seems we agree, then. Where’s the argument?</p>