<p>where did anyone say they condemn all soldiers, please show me that…I never dead</p>
<p>It is the court and the lawyers that sentenced them</p>
<p>I think the administration condems the soldier, IMO, with poor equipment, bad food, unlined helmuts, not enough care afterwards (the doctors etc are very good- just not enough of them), denial of patterns of illness, etc</p>
<p>And the federal taking of of veterans, shameful- again the people working with the vets do a good job, but there is not enough $$ to help</p>
<p>So please, citationx, show me the condemnation on this site of all soilders and the military</p>
<p>Many here have issues with LEADERSHIP, which is not the same as condeming the soilders…even Generals have problesm with the administration you call them haters</p>
<p>golani89 i am going to turn this around on you tell me why ‘they’ hate us list like 5 detailed reasons, not generalizations like idealogy, der , der, der give 5 reasons. When you’re done I’ll give 5 and we’ll compare notes.</p>
<p>I hate to tell you, but incidents like this occur all the time (I grew up on military bases around the world and heard soldier’s horror stories). Half a million children died after the first Gulf War; subsequently, as a result of UN sanctions, which were spearheaded by the U.S.</p>
<ol>
<li>We have different values-completely different values. i.e. on women, on dress, on homosexuals-this comes from indoctoration</li>
<li>We support Israel-they hate Jews this comes from indoctoration</li>
<li>A propoganized and distorted view of Islam or the “mainstream” view, depending on who you ask-kill the infidels- this comes from indoctoration</li>
<li>America’s success despite our opposite and “backwards” values- the resentment for that comes from indoctoration</li>
<li>Islam’s and Arabia’s failure to moderate</li>
</ol>
<p>Thats 5, now let me throw out a 6th, with your permission:</p>
<ol>
<li>Failed policies by the UN, by America because of a failure to realize whats at the heart of the issue and to properly fix the problem</li>
</ol>
<p>By the way these are in no particular order and some are more important than others</p>
<p>It really doesn’t matter to the topic of the thread how long people in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East have disliked America. The question is, do incidents like this fan the flames? Do they make it harder for Iraqi moderates to argue that America has the people’s interests at heart? Do the law-abiding troops now have an even harder job to do?</p>
<p>If Abu Ghraib is any indication, the answer is yes.</p>
<p>“We were hated in the middle east way before the iraq war, to think this is the reason our problems is exist is ridiculous”</p>
<p>Of course the first part of your statement is true (Clinton/Albright killed a million Iraqis, half of them children, and there is virtually no family in Iraq that was untouched.) But still, after the invasion, fewer than 20% of Iraqis approved of killing Americans. Now it is over 60%. Grandmas, moms with babies, teenagers, Shiites, Sunnis, and even some Kurds approve of killing Americans. (Take out the Kurds, and it will be closer to 7 out of 10.)</p>
<p>Familiarity has bred worse than contempt.</p>
<p>I am old enough to have lived in the Middle East when the people there LOVED Americans, and had pictures of JFK on every living room wall.</p>
<p>This question is really not much of a question and should not cast any negative light ON US. </p>
<p>They hate just to hate. </p>
<p>Mind you they also hate Sunnis (that is if one is Shiite), they also hate Shiite (if one is Sunni), and of course they hate Jews (that’s the one constant among Muslims). </p>
<p>They have been drinking their own poison for a long, long time, for thousands of years. I really don’t know what it will take to turn this around. Why don’t good muslims organize million person march and renounce violence, proclaim to the world this is not what Islam is all about, if in fact they are against violence?</p>
<p>So they hate the Ugandans just as much as the Americans?</p>
<p>And they hated the Americans the same amount three years ago that they do today?</p>
<p>I don’t think either of those is true. The data we have does not support your assertion that they are essentially hating for the hell of it. Of course, that doesn’t mean that their hatred is JUSTIFIED – just that there may be reasons why they hate some more than others, and if we understand those reasons, we will be able to fight the haters more effectively.</p>
<p>One morning I missed my train to work and called a taxis. I was polite in the cab, didnt say much, it was early morning and I had to think about the office, don’t remember saying much of anything. I talked just to be sociable. The cab driver, middle-eastern, arabic, throw the change at me when I paid him. </p>
<p>Another time, I visited the Chelsea Market in NY during the holidays and my wife and I entered a gourmet kitchen supply store and try to ask the owner who was sitting front and center at the entrance a few things, acting like any other tourists. The owner, arabic, pointed to a sign that says “Store inventory”, and said things like “can’t you read?” He gave us a look that is so villified that could only come from within. It wasn’t moment of anger, it was a revelation of what’s inside.</p>
<p>Hanna, I believe you are a reasonable, good-nature western person and you try to reason your way throught this madness. What happens when good-will and reason do not work ?</p>
<p>Wow. You are actually using the example of individual rude service workers in New York as evidence of Arabs’ blanket hatred toward others?</p>
<p>Leaving aside the question of whether it’s possible to find any POLITE service workers in NYC, did you meet any lazy blacks or cheap Jews while you were there? I have…and you know what that means…</p>
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<p>You often go to war. But if you’re wise, you wage war carefully, with an understanding of what’s going to give ammunition to your allies within the country and what will inspire the enemy to keep fighting till the last 6-year-old in his country is killed.</p>
<p>hey everyone back out will I retune Golani, the budding Kahanist.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Values. Sure there is different treatment, but again, that means nothing. Most European countries are way more liberal than our values, but not even a fraction of that hatred was directed towards Europe as directed towards America.</p></li>
<li><p>Finally you got half of one right. Right they hate us because we support Israel. But it is not because Israelis are Jews, its because militant Jewish terorrists came and seized the land (they could have been Buddhist, and there would be the same conflict). Although treatment of Jews in the Middle Eastern world prior to the creation of Israel wasnt’ great, they never had a Holocaust or a large-scale pogrom. So spare me the hatred of Jews bilge, you my friend, are the one that posted a site that slammed Islam in its entirety, the ultimate hate.</p></li>
<li><p>A powerful bogey, but a bogey none the less. Secularists such as Saddam Hussein, Bashar Assad, and Nasser were not friends of Americans. The Saudis, the most Islamist of the Muslims, are America’s biggest allies in the region.</p></li>
<li><p>America’s success?? Well sure America has a booming GDP. China also has a booming economy. Many northern European countries have higher GDP per capita (adjusted per population). They never claimed jihad against them.</p></li>
<li><p>See #3. Your points don’t stand. As usual , its a bunch of bilge. Now for the death of your argument.</p>
<p>One now wonders where the hatred comes. Secularists and religious groups have hated us. America’s successs doesn’t stand either, so let’s try again without the hatemonger , Golani. Next time let me go to some Neo-Nazi site and post how Jews control the world and see how polite you will be when you debate.</p>
<ol>
<li>America’s blind support of Israel. <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_aid_to_Israel[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_aid_to_Israel</a> I won’t even get to the economic aid. At the end of a day, terrorist Jews who should have stayed in Europe (Irgun and Lehi) made a country where one was not. </li>
</ol></li>
<li><p>The subversion of democratic entites in the region. 1953 the US and the Brits orchestrated a coup against a democratically elected leader Mossadegh and installed a dictator for 26 years before the 1979 Revolution. That explains the hatred of THAT country towards America.</p></li>
<li><p>The inconsitency of American policies when fighting the Cold War. We armed Saddam, put sanctions upon him, then invaded him. Cost hundreds of thousands of death.</p></li>
<li><p>A spin-off of 3. America’s support of corrupt rulers. See Jordan, Egypt,Saudi Arabia.</p></li>
<li><p>The plundering of the oil through corrupt dealers.</p>
<p>IF anyone wishes to response please address the points for Golani as G1-5 or M1-5 for me.</p></li>
</ol>
Are you forgetting the Muslim riots in Europe over a cartoon? Howbout the riots over the pope. Howbout terrorism in Spain, in France, in England. How about the murder of Theo Van Gogh? Cmon they do hate Europe.
I posted an article from that site. Note the distinction. Many would agree with the article’s content. There have been many large scale pogroms in the Middle East. Try in 1929 Hebron-69 Jews dead. Jews have livened in Hebron forever. "militant Jewish terorrists "? That argument is way to long for me to fight out in one post, so lets both abandon that unless you really want to press it and I would love to discuss that. However I ask how do you reconcile Jewish mass migration into Palestine with an economic boom for Palestinian Arabs, decreased infant mortality rate, increased life expectance?
Friends? Saudi Arabia are as much friends as Sunnis and Shiites are. Bush is making a big mistake with his Saudi allies if you ask me.
Sucess despite our American values, not just sucess
5</p>
<p>I posted an article from a website. Without discussing the website, lets just talk about the article. What points of the article do you dispute. And by the way do not call me a Kahanist or maybe I should just call you Arafat then. That would keep it fair eh?</p>
<ol>
<li>Irgun and Lehi did not build Israel. the JA played a much larger role and there were others that escaped my head at this moment</li>
</ol>
<p>You do not know the history of Palestine. So please do not blanket people who built that country as terrorists. Those Jews were in the moral and legal right.</p>