Having no debt certainly makes it easier, but that’s simply not possible for most families I come across. The median income for my county is 66K. Those with college ready kids might have a higher median due to having more years on the job, but it’s tough to save for retirement, college, and still pay the normal bills when you are making that and less during the earlier years. EFC helps to balance things out, but most colleges don’t meet need - esp without debt.
Around us college grads seem to still be getting jobs that fit or fit close enough, but we’re in a really low unemployment rate area. Many trade school kids get jobs that fit too. The key is getting the education needed to get into those jobs and that usually requires at least some loans. Few pay cash for cars either - even used cars, unless it’s a beater just for local use and with someone handy at doing their own repairs.
There’s the bulk of the cc community with their income levels (I suspect a much higher median income among us) and there’s the majority of the US.
Computer programming is comparable to the trades of the past. Now you can get employment without a college degree. I would guess that the majority of employed programmers do not have a degree in CS. That includes my son and at least 10 people that I know. The same situation is with jobs in Cybersecurity, computer networking and system administration. A lot of people with a degree from DeVry Institute or similar or ex-military. There are alternative ways to prove your competence to the employers - acquire certifications, publish your code, hack something, etc.
You can teach yourself. All information and software are freely available on the Internet including answers to any questions you might have. And you can be obese - nobody cares.
If you are getting a degree in a soft major and want to have a job (not in Starbucks) after graduation you better spend a lot of efforts getting internships in the summers after sophomore and junior years. This includes not going abroad in the fall of junior year when a lot of companies recruit and interview for the next summer internships.
I would add, ‘take some quant classes’. Data analysis is huge. And a Lit major that can do quant should be very attractive to employers. Of course, that’s the rub: many/most(?) Lit majors are allergic to quant.
From what I gave seen, most people doing the most technical jobs in software have degrees in CS or similar, although some are self educated in CS with no degree or unrelated degree. I.e. it is possible to enter the field through self education, but most people can learn the needed material with the structure of studying CS in college.
IT (computer network and system administration) is less technical and more commonly done without a technical degree. But less technically skilled administrators are often no match for the crackers they are defending against.
I would strongly disagree with this.If you are doing software product development, you likely either have a engineering/CS degree or entered the field decades ago, when it was more open to those without formal training. Or you were lucky and got into the right startup at the right time, ex. Harvard dropouts at Facebook.
Ex-military might have some advantage in cyber-security. I would trust some ex-NSA military to have a better understanding of APTs than most of the cyber-security professionals in the private sector.
The 1st step is so obvious yet not really encouraged or appreciated…
“The first step to managing college debt is to find a school that fits within your budget. Many state schools offer steep discounts for in state students.”
My kids have and currently attend a HS that encourages to “dream big no matter the cost” and this thinking is a part of not only the school but the community. We are middle income living in an affluent community. I bet many folks out there get caught in this “prestige” trap.
USNWR rates us #13 in the state. Kids are embarrased to go to SRU, Bloomsburg or West Chester even tho those schools are a great bang for the buck. Bloomsburg may be the best Nursing program in the state but folks will still spend $15-$17,000 more per year to go to Pitt(taking out loans). Insane if you ask me but it is what it is.
The depth of the college debt would shrink dramatically if college shaming were to disappear. Not a cure all but would most definitely help.
Doesn’t that start with the education establishment which really believes in college for all, and to “dream big no matter the cost”. (The fact that it benefits them in particular, is only coincidental, right???)
Six figure debt for MA degrees. I’ve long posted on cc that GradPlus loans are out of control. Without loans up to COA, programs like that at 'SC and NYU would not exist. We as a society, have enabled the educators to con us into a moral hazard to feather their own nests.
Does anyone really believe that giving out six figure loans to a bunch of low income kids to obtain a very paying salary in a a low-paying industry is helping these folks?
Props to the DoE for shining lights on program-specific loan amounts.
@bester1 we are also in PA and our HS doesn’t even place in the top 100 - and kids are embarrassed by the same schools! Not all kids obviously and students do go to these colleges, but there is a definite “ expectation “ of where some students should go and what “type” goes to Bloomsburg.
I think the high debt load for grad school is a problem but I’m not sure there are easy solutions.
You don’t think a 25 year old is capable of understanding what the median salary range is for a social worker? And if they are- and they STILL want to borrow, and they meet whatever (minimal) criteria are required- what’s the solution? No, you can’t become a social worker because you don’t have wealthy parents who can bankroll you? And unlike film and journalism- where you do NOT need a Master’s degree, you can’t become a social worker without getting an MSW. So what’s the answer?
I have less of an issue with the licensed professions- although I’m scared for individuals who take on those debt loads. But for programs which don’t lead to licensing- Master’s degree in Philanthropy (who thought that one up?) or Digital Communications-- there are thousands of people who work in philanthropic management and digital communications who don’t even have a relevant BA degree to get those jobs, let alone a Master’s degree- what do people think they are signing on for with these graduate programs???
It would be interesting to see the comparison for the student loans in the states that DO provide a free option for all students to states where it is really expected that the students take the $5500 loan. Do Tennessee, Florida, Oregon etc have a much lower average student debt at graduation?
Seems like society is unwilling to pay much for dedicated social workers, resulting in offloading some of the social work to others, like police officers. Is this what we want?
State schools are great options for MSW programs and a great many programs are online. But, like with undergrad, people get wowed by the prestige of certain university names and often don’t realize that a CSWE-accredited MSW is a CSWE-accredited MSW in the eyes of a vast, vast majority of employers.
Actually, there does exist a really easy solution: the Cal States, offer MSWs, much less expensively than 'SC. Long Beach State even offers a distance learning model. (haven’t checked the others.)
And of course, the film program at NYU has mob-style pricing.
They are being conned by the educators themselves, courtesy of the US taxpayers.
I just got my MSW and I only applied to CUNY and SUNY schools. I fear for many of my classmates who come from families that are in no position to help with school costs, went right from CUNY/SUNY undergrad to MSW, and are just now needing to start paying back their loans. It’s not like they can count on the programs set up to diminish their debt load in exchange for working where there is the greatest need–those programs are totally screwed up.
And @scholarmin, to go into private practice, MSWs must work 2-3 (depending on the state) years under supervision to become CSWs. And even if they do go into private practice, insurance companies are not generous to CSWs.
On the topic of quality/reputation, prestige and cost…one of my favorite scenarios is a family friend went to Pitt. Good student, nice kid but he had a bit to much fun and did not do well a semester and actually failed an economics class. He left Pitt and his parents had him enroll in CCAC(Community College of Allegheny County). Well…he enrolled in an economics class…guess what…same professor from Pitt was teaching his class at CCAC. His Pitt class costs thousands of dollars, his CCAC class was a few hundred. He had loans for Pitt. Worked his way thru CCAC.
His parents now tell that story all of the time…they had believed they were getting a better product because it was Pitt…they were fooled. Not saying this always applies but I bet profs cross teach an different schools in many cities.
How many thousands in loans could be saved if the prestige game was taken out of the equation?
Is a Pitt Social Work degree any better than a Social Work Degree from IUP…both will likely command a low paying starting salary. Economics…likely the same as well(He eventually graduated from IUP and is some sort of analyst with a well established consultant firm).
