It’s a real program and highly recognized. Not many can do puppetry to this degree. So yes.
How many need to do puppetry to that degree? Are there many jobs for puppet masters?
I don’t think because some adjunct faculty teach both at Pitt and a community college, that this makes the two schools equivalent for education, job placement, contacts made, or options for graduate school later. Even marriage options are different at Pitt and CCAC. Its just a little hard for parents at times who think of a degree as just “classes”. Its more than that for many students. I have nothing against community colleges and they serve a good purpose, but I see many disillusioned parents and students who expected “more” from their college and then fall back on the argument that all education is created equal. Its probably more about what you put into it, actually.
Here is the article on growing Florida debt. Florida is one of the fastest growing states, population wise, not sure
how they normalize for growth to calculate this.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/education/fl-ne-florida-student-loan-debt-spikes-20190109-story.html
I’m not sure marriage options are a reason to factor into college choice in the 21st century; the average age of first marriage for college educated is close to 30 now, so they probably didn’t meet in college or they had a really long 9 year engagement. Depending on the degree, I think it is quite possible that Pitt carries no more weight than the local community college in any meaningful way. Easy to be unemployed from both.
Its not necessarily marriage during college, its who you meet. That may determine who you marry. Ask yourself how you met your spouse! Was it through someone you knew in high school, or college? College matters for life, absolutely it does, or College Confidential would not exist.
Also one cannot get a 4 year degree from CCAC, it simply does not offer a 4 year degree program.
So in no way is CCAC in any way equivalent to U of Pittsburgh.
https://www.ccac.edu
Also, community college is usually filling a different niche. Many adult learners, career changers, or people who need to fill in credits for various reasons. Its not the same purpose as a school like U of Pittsburgh, its just apples and oranges. Pittsburgh is a carnage research institution, and wins federal grant money. The differences between the two mean that it makes no sense to argue about which is better. They are clearly not very overlapped in what they offer.
Some community colleges do offer 4 year degrees now. Several in Florida do for nursing, child care, and in my old neighborhood, theater. My kids weren’t interested because they had other options.
I think Florida students are still going to borrow the full direct student loans. Bright Futures covers the tuition for some students, partial tuition for others, but students are still going to just borrow loans to pay for room and board and other fun stuff.
Community college helps eliminate debt. Then they can transfer to look for a marriage partner? Lol. Debt… is the point of this discussion.
Community college may help lower some debt, but students are still eligible for the standard loans so the possibility of the $27k is still there.
Good point. Perhaps they would not borrow as much? I think $5,000 would more than cover two semesters at CCAC. They could maybe work and save more after two years.
Also, I never said Pitt/CCAC were the same. They do have some of the same profs teaching the same class materials for lots of difference in costs.
Ok, I’ll play.
Let’s assume that all of the above is true, then the question becomes, ‘why should it be the taxpayer’s responsibility to establish federal programs that help ensure folks can meet the “right” people (however defined) – not for future jobs – but for meeting your life partner?’
Just because a prof teaches the “same” class at two different schools doesn’t mean the content is the same, though some might make theirs that way. As long as we’re adding anecdotes, a fellow math teacher moved on to teaching at a well-known highly regarded relatively local LAC and the local CC. We (math teachers) were discussing his experiences one time and asked him how different the classes were. His words? Something to the effect of, “The kids at the cc can’t handle the hard questions like the kids at the LAC can, so I drop them for that class or they’d all fail.”
I’ve also personally asked profs at some 4 year schools if cc course work is sufficient to transfer in as credit when part of a major and been told no many times. (This question got asked because my lads took some cc courses while in high school. That’s common around here.) Some of my kids’ credits did transfer - esp courses like English outside their majors. I asked my kids later if they felt their cc course was on par with the courses their peers at the four year school had and both said no. They were actually both happy about it, because neither cared for English, so easier was better in their eyes. One of my lads ended up having to take a separate writing course in order to graduate though - this after having gotten a B in the cc course (of which writing was a major component). His writing wasn’t considered good enough by his college for graduation.
I’ve heard of good ccs that prepare students well, so they are probably out there. Know what your local one is though. Just because one might be good doesn’t mean they all provide the same foundation. Just because a school is a four year school doesn’t mean it’s great either. There are even schools with engineering that employers I know don’t care to get their new employees from. It’s not even necessarily based upon USNews ranking.
Note the local CC was not highly regarded. Wow…now the kids that go to CC can’t write…that is a super broad brush. I realize the LAC was highly regarded but the CC was not. Cant afford a 4 year college…go to CC where the kids cant write. Some HS educators actually think this way. Tell that to Ross Perot, George Lucus, Steve Jobs, Sarah Palin, Tom Hanks…shall I continue? Many famous CC grads that can…write, read and do math.
CC can help lower debt. That’s the point. Some will pay $3000 for a class and some will pay $300. Maybe the same material and maybe the same instructor. Significant savings
@bester1 What exactly makes your anecdote better than what I’ve experienced first hand?
Who said no one at a cc can write? My actual experience is my lad getting a B in his cc course was not sufficient for his college to accept his writing for a degree even though they accepted his credit. They required him to take an additional writing class. It’s an anecdote.
The math prof is another anecdote - a real one I experienced in person.
What those two anecdotes do is counter your broad brush extrapolating from your anecdote and saying all cc classes are as good as their four year counterparts. They may or may not be. Folks should do some research and not broad brush anything.
NYS has equivalency charts so students can tell which cc courses are the equivalent of those at the state universities and which are for students who need extra help. Don’t other states do that?
^^^ My kids are all college grads already, but I never saw anything like that when they were picking their courses. They may have had remedial English courses, etc, but we/they selected the English 101 version, not the 010 versions. I know the Microbio and Public Speaking classes one of my lads took (same cc) were awesome. Microbio was one regularly taken by students in their nursing program and plenty of their students do well passing exams/getting jobs, so no surprise that the class was good.
Apparently, there is considerable variation by state as to how well the CCs offer courses that match up to common first and second year courses at the state flagship(-level) universities. For example, the University of Michigan transfer credit database shows that many Michigan CCs have gaps in coverage of common courses (e.g. calculus 1, 2, and 3).
Michigan is incredibly tough especially on math and science classes to transfer. My son couldn’t go to our local cc for 2 summer courses. He drove an hour one direction then another hour in the opposite direction all last summer just to find community colleges that would meet Michigan’s criteria in Chicago. They even talked to one of the professors and the CC had to send in the final exam or an example of it to make sure they covered everything that Michigan wanted. There was one thing missing and could of been covered in talking to the class for ten minutes. Michigan still said no. So he did a lot of driving. So yes, they are tough.
Famous people that attended CC, including some writers…
From USNWR:
https://www.usnews.com/education/community-colleges/slideshows/famous-people-who-attended-community-college
https://www.communitycollegereview.com/blog/10-famous-community-college-graduates
Amazing people that used CC because it was less expensive, allowed them an opportunity to try classes/programs, gave them a chance and if needed…gave them an associates degree that may have opened a door to a 4 year college, to a new career/job or a certification to provide credibility
Oh…and Community College transfers are more likely to graduate than traditional students at selective colleges…wow…hope that doesn’t destroy too many egos.
. https://www.jkcf.org/our-stories/community-college-transfer-students-more-likely-graduate/
Is that on UM or more to the fact that the course he needed was not offered in summer at your cc? Are those required courses offered during the fall/spring at your local cc?
(And am I’m reading correctly that you are OOS? If so, does it make sense to hold IL community colleges to Michigan’s transfer standards?)