Obviously, out-of-state equivalency is likely to be worse. However, at https://www.ugadmiss.umich.edu/TCE/Public/CT_TCESearch.aspx , most Michigan community colleges have at least one of calculus 1, 2, 3 which are not accepted as equivalent to the University of Michigan courses.
My kids went to a fancy pants high school in California (for one year). I think there were 235 kids graduating and all but 6 went directly to college. Five went on Missions and one went to play jr hockey for a year. 50 students listed a California CC as their school. Most chose the CC as a first choice.
My nephew went to a similar Catholic school in Denver (except all male). I don’t think even one student was going to community college. Different state, different quality in community colleges.
@bluebayou. No they are offered year round. Like I said the colleges close to us didn’t meet Michigan criteria. The ones in the suburbs did. Has nothing to do with being instate or OOS. Michigan has this reputation for math and science being difficult to transfer especially for engineering. It has to meet both the engineering requirements plus the transfer requirements for lsa . Both departments have to ok the class not just one. Otherwise you might get credit but it can’t be used to offset the class needed to go forward. Hope that makes sense
Colleges differ. Ccs differ. I’m not sure why this is so surprising to some.
People can be successful from all sorts of backgrounds and paths. It makes sense for folks to investigate their options themselves rather than take any blanket statement of “this works best for everyone, everywhere.”
Even with students from the high school where I work and with my own three lads there is no single “best path” for each student.
It should not be too surprising.
It does mean that the states which have poor coordination of transfer credit between CCs and state universities and/or limited offerings of common frosh/soph level courses at CCs are doing their students a disservice by making the “start at CC and transfer to state university” path less usable, potentially limiting the number of students who can use that path as either a way to save some money by taking common lower level courses less expensively, or as a chance to redeem themselves academically in CC after a poor high school record.
We can have a theory conversation about how things ideally could work, or we can assist parents/students with the knowledge of the variations that exist IRL so they can intelligently plan a best path for each individual now.
Is cc a good starting and/or ending point? Maybe. Is a 4 year public a good path? Maybe. Is a 4 year private a good path? Maybe. Is a trade school a better option? Maybe.
So much depends upon the student involved and the options around them.
Saying “this is always true,” is a pretty darn false statement when it comes to post high school planning.
Well… high debt for an undergrad education comes pretty close to being an “always true” statement. Still, I’d want to know what the alternatives were and the plan was before coming to that conclusion TBH.
Correct, and it means that states need to fix that. It does not mean that the feds need a massive loan program to cover up the state’s internal coordination issues.
Sure it does. As long as the cc’s in Illinois, for example, offer the math/science courses to transfer into UI-UC Eng, then the state policy makers are doing their job. There is no policy reason why the cc’s in IL should be focused on offering courses that transfer to a college two states away. OTOH, if the local cc’s are not offering enuf math/science to transfer to UIUC, then that is a problem which state educators need to address. The fact that cc’s in the burbs may offer even more advanced math (and English and history…) than is required to transfer to UIUC is not relevant.
If UM wants to be like a private Uni and make transferring-in difficult, that’s on them. But note, the state’s land-grant college is in East Lansing, so the state is still taking care of its residents.
Why You’ll Get Denied for Student Loan Forgiveness…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertfarrington/2019/06/04/why-youll-get-denied-for-student-loan-forgiveness/#6d8676275a1c
HBCU’s are wonderful, but not sure it makes sense to rack up debt to attend a sleep-away college across the country when the local Cal State’s are cheap.
3 Reasons Why You Shouldn’t Borrow Student Loans…
Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Graduate Schools
Although undergraduate student loans are limited to $31,000 for students who are financially dependent on their parents and $57,500 for those who are not, there are no hard caps on how much someone can borrow for graduate school.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/03/upshot/student-debt-big-culprit-graduate-school.html
Can Data Ward Off College Debt? There’s a Push to Show Which Majors Pay Off
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/upshot/can-data-ward-off-college-debt-new-strategy-focuses-on-results.html
The thing to keep in mind with the “Which Majors Pay Off” data is that any given student can’t just suddenly decide they are going to be a terrific ______. Someone who decides to major in engineering because engineers make more than psychologists isn’t guaranteed a thing because if they aren’t talented in their field they won’t be the ones earning those salaries.
Most articles google brings up says that half (or more) of students entering college will change their major. I suspect a good number of those are students who choose a major based upon expected income, but then find themselves totally behind the bell curve in ability for that major (esp things like engineering or cs). Even in the trades, “become a plumber” guarantees nothing if one doesn’t have the talent to get good word of mouth (and print) reviews.
No one should be aiming for high debt, but be cautious aiming for a mismatched to abilities field too.
Excellent point. And that means we should not fall for the ‘big loans at this private sleep away college is ok bcos its Engineering or the prospie is a Finance or CS wannabe, i.e., big bucks after graduation’. But the fact is that like premeds, some pre-engineers and pre-biz types wash out as they fail/hate calc or Accounting 1.
As an example, there is thread on cc about a student who was accepted for CS, but has just ‘failed’ Calc 1 the second time. S/he can appeal, but CS ain’t lookin’ likely at this point.
Financial adviser: Here’s what parents should do amid exploding student loan debt crisis
https://www.foxnews.com/us/student-loan-debt-crisis-advice-parents
Interesting as in the district we live in the parents tell the kids to go to the best school they can get into regardless of cost. I see it all of the time and at the end of 4 years(sometimes earlier) the parents say the system is broken.
Student Loans: To Solve the Problem, Understand the History
https://www.kiplinger.com/article/college/T042-C032-S014-student-loans-to-solve-problem-understand-history.html
Simple advice:
“Attending a community college for the first two years.
Pursuing scholarships.
Saving on room-and-board costs by commuting and living with your parents or having roommates.”
I can’t imagine living in a district that tells kids/families to ignore the cost of a college, unless, of course, the families have plenty of cash available in which case picking a college is a lot like picking a car or house - choose what you want if you can afford it - The Ferrari or the Kia (insert names of cars as one wishes).
However, as stated before, investigate local and community colleges to be sure they fill the niche one wants rather than just assuming they will if opting for those paths. Investigate other options if one has the stats for them too, because local and/or cc is not always the least expensive. I’ve seen students with a low EFC and stats in the lower to mid 1200s on the SAT get free rides if everything else is on the application and they apply correctly. No one can guarantee it, but it was certainly worth trying for them (male and Caucasian in case anyone was wondering - first gen was really the only hook IMO - they didn’t cure cancer or have extra research anything, etc). Why pay for a Kia when one might get something better (or equally as good) for free or equal cost if one shops around?
As stated before - there is no single correct path for every student. Investigate actual options for the individual. Finances are an issue for many families.
As an aside, I don’t recall any of us wishing we had started at a cc if we had our “golden ticket” (thread on the cafe), so I completely get the allure many have of looking for other options if interested in the college experience vs just the piece of paper. That too depends upon the individual.
Creative and less expensive way to get a Nursing degree in Western PA. Perhaps more opportunities to come to help students gain an education.
CCAC inks agreement with Ohio University’s bachelor of science program in nursing
https://triblive.com/local/valley-news-dispatch/ccac-inks-agreement-with-ohio-universitys-bachelor-of-science-program-in-nursing/
The candidates are wrong. It’s a mistake to pay off college graduates’ debt
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/03/perspectives/student-loan-debt-forgiveness-warren-sanders/index.html
Parents are largely to blame for the student loan crisis
https://nypost.com/2019/07/01/parents-are-largely-to-blame-for-the-student-loan-crisis/
@bester1 - I could not disagree more with the NY Post article that “parents are to blame.” Who is the biggest voice for going to college? Why have high schools, for the most part, completely abandoned vocational education? Why does a college education need to cost $70,000 per year when a school has 9 to 10 digit endowments?
My family has approached this as ‘go to the best school we (student and parents) can afford.’ My children will graduate from 4-year schools with only subsidized student loan debt. We have accomplished this through choosing programs that will cover all but the EFC cost of school. We are paying the difference between loans and fees not covered by aid out-of-pocket. The student is covering the cost of books and supplies with part time work. We are not taking any loans. Money is tight, but manageable for our situation.
The parents that upset me are the ‘you must pay for college’ types that make good money. I am not sure they realize the impact their income has on need based aid. We have friends that have adopted this approach. Their kids are pulling it off with higher loans while parents remodel the house and go on long vacations.
In my opinion, parents have been sold the same bill of goods that students have, a college education is the only way to succeed in life. BS. My oldest son recently completed a BS in Chemistry. He has a job paying $16/hr in a lab. He sees ads for vocational positions offering $20/hr for new hires. Not a strong vote for the college path. My point is that we, as a society, have done this generation a huge disservice by pushing college for everyone as the only path worth considering. The skilled trades are beginning to suffer. In my opinion, its perfectly ok to be a welder, pipe fitter or electrician. Not everyone is cut out for college and not everyone is cut out for skilled trades. We should let our kids know they are both options.