The average amount is reported but not the size of these scholarships. My take is that there a relatively few large scholarships and then the rest are quite small.
The schools aren’t telling. They reveal the number of students and average amount in their Common Data Set (Google for each school), but you are stuck with pretty much that and what is on their website page on scholarships. Add that to any postings you can find out here in the accepted student threads with stats.
@LOUKYDAD, this is one data point but does answer your question in your earlier post. DS14 has high school sophomore stats similar to your child. He then graduated first in his class and had perfect ACT amongst other good (but not outstanding) EC’s. He received full tuition scholarship from Vandy.
Like a lot of folks I know, I appreciate all the work others have done on this site to provide valuable advice and info. This seems to be one area where perhaps one could build on that a bit and help someone else out.
The yola site list for competitive awards full tuition and better awards is helpful. I have this idea that it would be valuable if it could be coupled with stats, such as number of awards expressed as a percentage of some variable. Best variable in my mind, if available and the school has a minimum qualifying criteria, to know the prior year number of eligible students matriculating. If unavailable, at the very least the variable could be rough estimate of the total number of students accepted with scores equal to or better than the 75th percentile, which is easily accessible. Start a list within a thread. I know I would appreciate that if someone did all that leg work for me.
Would help you make a distinction like this. Richmond with approximately 45 awards vs. Sewanee with 2 vs. Rhodes with 1. Versus incoming freshman students eligible of X vs. X vs. X.
If no one else has done it, I could do that at least for the schools on my son’s list.
FWIW, my son (#2 out of 142, 35 ACT, 1530 SAT, Pell eligible) was invited to the ADS Competition at Michigan State. He was a third generation legacy who’d expressed major interest in MSU and was ultimately admitted at Northwestern and Amherst. He didn’t even get called for an interview after the initial round of testing. He did, however, end up with a full scholarship (tuition, room and board, etc.) after being named a NMF and inquiring about additional scholarship money available through the honors college and college of engineering.
It seems to me that the competitive scholarships have very long odds and are often a marketing weekend for the schools to woo high stats applicants. I found that a better use of our time was to focus on the school that he really wanted to attend and contact everyone and anyone who might be able to find scholarship money for us. I realize MSU is not UVa, but I imagine the same strategy might work at a place like Clemson. I also think it helped that he had a Northwestern acceptance letter in hand and a FA package from them that was better than what MSU offered initially. Of course, the NW package was need-based…but the admissions people at MSU were still able to use it to justify increasing the merit aid he was given. Asking NW for more money based on the FA offer from Amherst, however, was a waste of time. The highly selective schools will just move on to the next applicant, it seems.
Great thread, @LOUKYDAD , my D has applied almost exclusively to LACs. Two were EA, she has been accepted and awarded scholarships. I think she might get scholarships at a couple of the others, but we aren’t expecting anything like full rides. She has applied to some top tier LACs, if she gets in she will get nothing. But the less selective ones are still excellent schools and we will be happy to not spend $60-80k over the course of four years.
I highly recommend the website college data. We have used it extensively to find out which colleges my D has a realistic chance of getting into, and a realistic chance of being awarded merit. There is a ton of info about admissions criteria, demographics, etc… Probably that site and CC are the two most useful sites for any college bound student.
“It seems to me that the competitive scholarships have very long odds and are often a marketing weekend for the schools to woo high stats applicants.”
Interesting. I wasn’t thinking about that, but it makes total sense. They get a high stat student to visit, make them feel warm and fuzzy just for the “honor” of being a “finalist”. Mom, dad and student get wooed, and a “dream school” image could take hold. Much more likely at least than if otherwise a visit is never made. That is good marketing.
“I also think it helped that he had a Northwestern acceptance letter in hand and a FA package from them that was better than what MSU offered initially.”
“Asking NW for more money based on the FA offer from Amherst, however, was a waste of time. The highly selective schools will just move on to the next applicant, it seems.”
Very helpful to understand. Supply and demand, it makes sense. No reason for NW to budge. Presumably there are kids similarly qualified who are on the deferred list for NW who would take their offer. Wouldn’t be as easy for MSU presumably to fill the same spot with someone similarly qualified. So the departmental and other scholarships are awards are still in play that could sweeten the offer.
“I found that a better use of our time was to focus on the school that he really wanted to attend and contact everyone and anyone who might be able to find scholarship money for us.”
Good advice based on the above, when you know you are a strong applicant for the school you want to attend. Don’t assume the game is over if you don’t win the long shot merit. I will remember that, thank you.
@LOUKYDAD , my husband and I deliberately want to avoid the special accpeted students days for the reasons you listed in post 27. Instead, she is going on a regular day to the college, where she will be taken to classes, lunch, etc…by a current student. We think this is a good way for her to get a feel for the college without the bells and whistles.
“It seems to me that the competitive scholarships have very long odds and are often a marketing weekend for the schools to woo high stats applicants.”
This may be true. The scholarship weekends are definitely a chance for the school to market itself to students it would very much like to have. But it’s also a chance for the student to see if the school is a good fit. D’14 went to a scholarship weekend. She had a night in the dorm (a sorority house, actually), a trip into the city for famous pizza, a chance to ask questions of students, eat in the dining hall, tours, meet with a professor in her major, lots of helpful stuff. She also interviewed for the scholarship. If I recall, everyone who came at least got an increase in their scholarship offer. She ended up with the competitive scholarship and now attends that school. Definitely worth it for her.
Interesting thread. There may be a bit of a distinction issue going on here when discussing scholarship weekends and accepted student weekends. The accepted student weekend is an opportunity for students (and parents) to get a feel for a school before committing and may well be viewed by the school as a chance to show their best side (marketing, if you will). Scholarship weekends (held on a different weekend) may include some of that, but is also when the school makes offering decisions from a pool of finalists, as Parentof2014grad mentioned. That’s not really marketing, as some of the students not selected will undoubtedly go elsewhere and I imagine the schools are fully aware of that fact. I believe students invited to scholarship weekends at many of those schools do receive 1/2 to full tuition merit scholarships, just not the full ride they were hoping for.
Just to illustrate another side of the coin, D’s home state is pretty remote from everywhere. She attends boarding school in another rather remote location.
So we deliberately avoided all the scholarships where you have to show up for a scholarship weekend because we could not afford the time & expense of getting her there if she was a finalist. Maybe the colleges are targeting middle to high income families, because the whole setup makes it very difficult for poorer folks unless they happen to live nearby.
NU might have budged if you had an acceptance to Harvard or Stanford, but they don’t view Amherst or MSU as competition.
“NU might have budged if you had an acceptance to Harvard or Stanford, but they don’t view Amherst or MSU as competition.”
Why? Northwestern’s acceptance rate was 13%. Presumably there is someone just as talented that wants that spot and would take that offer. The school doesn’t need to improve its offer. Take it or leave it.
@LOUKYDAD, My D15 was in the situation you are describing. In her case, she wanted to attend a LAC and we really could not afford the cost of any LAC. She is a high stat kid (NMF, 4.0 UW, etc). She chased merit money. We live in the west where there are not a lot of LACs. She applied to many and also applied for any full tuition or full ride they had them. She applied to some LACs in the southeast based on visits during vacation (Davidson and W&L for example). After it was said and done, we felt that she got better merit aid from the eastern schools, perhaps because she offered “diversity” in location. She got automatic merit aid from many LACs that amounted to half tuition, but that wasn’t enough to make the schools feasible. She did get two full ride offers from eastern schools, one of which was the Johnson. My advise is to roll the dice and try for all you can. You never know what schools are looking for. We are white, middle class, and she had no “hooks” (a varsity athlete but not continuing, no research, no start-ups, taught a music class at HS, some but not a lot of volunteer time, so nothing special) other than a rigorous school program and very good grades, scores and recommendations. Good luck!
I don’t think NW is interested in matching the super-aid offered by Amherst, Harvard or Stanford. As you say, there are others ready to take the spot.
I agree - NW has plenty of talented, interested kids on their wait list. They have no motivation to match Harvard, Stanford or really any other school.
I also agree with @mtrosemom. My older son did chase some merit money, already knowing what his financial and academic safeties would be. Not every school that accepted him offered sufficient merit to make it worth it, but he also got some great merit offers. So it was worth the time and effort. Of course, the offers may not have come in, but we knew what the risks were and he was willing to put in the time.
We’ll see what our younger son’s credentials look like in a couple of years and decide then what our approach will be. Could be the same.
LOUKYDAD,
Since your kid is only a sophomore, the one thing that you can do that will have the GREATEST effect on improving his chances of getting big merit awards is have him prep for the PSAT this summer. Whether it is taking multiple practice SAT tests, or studying online with Khan academy, or getting some private tutoring, if he can get a PSAT score above KY’s MNSF cutoff score, then many, many doors will open to Merit $$.
And regarding trying to “negotiate” with colleges- Colleges will ONLY consider revising awards based on what their peers have offered. Amherst is a LAC, and MSU is not a top 20 U.
Neither are peers of NU, which is a top 20 University.
A college’s acceptance rate is not a factor in determining who a colleges "peer’s are.
And I’m kind of surprised that USC [ Southern California] is not mentioned when examples of generous Merit scholarships come up .
USC awards 150 FULL TUITION scholarships and over 250 1/2 Tuition scholarships each year.
Granted- getting one of those full tuition scholarships is as hard statistically as getting in Stanford [<5%] . They are offered to kids with the stats, scores, and EC’s that are also often accepted at tippy top U’s.
DS was one of those lucky recipients and he was also accepted at many tip top schools. [ this was in the bad old days before many top schools increased their FA packages to middle class parents].
So we were on a hunt for merit $ and luckily he hit the jackpot at USC.
I encourage kids with Ivy level stats to apply to USC, but remember that if you want to be considered for Merit $$ , the application HAS to be completed by Dec 1.