Shortcut to assessing "competitiveness" of various competitive full tuition or better scholarships?

Paying for College
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Suppose a student has top tests scores (top 1% percentile on standardized tests) and is ranked at the top or close to the top of their high school class. Has taken the most rigorous coursework possible, including a lot of AP classes with scores of 4s and 5s. Well rounded. Good ECs and involvement, but no national awards or anything special. No hooks to speak of. Will not likely qualify for much financial aid. Not quirky. Likable/interviews well. Bloom where planted kind of person/personality.

Assume the student has a full ride offer from a safety school (state flagship) that he or she would be willing to attend, but would like to attend a more selective school if possible. Considering multiple career paths that may or may not include graduate or professional school. Wants to continue to explore and keep options as open as possible. Given the offer on the table from the state flagship, and with two siblings behind him, doesn’t feel that it is prudent or advisable to spend significant family resources unnecessarily on undergraduate education. Therefore, with the offer from the safety in their pocket, wants to focus on searching for more selective schools that offer large merit awards (full tuition to full ride).

After eliminating schools that don’t offer merit money whatsoever (Ivies, etc.), taking into account any regional preferences (no cold weather, no further than X hours from home, etc.), type of school (national research U over LAC, etc.), and any school that is equivalent or no better fit than the safety, the student has an initial list of about a dozen schools.

Interested in strategy from here specifically. What is the best way to do it?

Imagine a list like this one: Clemson, Davidson, Duke, Emory, U of Georgia, UNC, Vandy, Wake Forest, Wash & Lee, Wash U (St. L), U of Virginia.

Obviously, there are a lot of differences in these schools. Comparing UGA with Davidson and Wash & Lee is apples and oranges. So this has to be evaluated.

But what next? It goes without saying that getting some of these scholarships is as competitive or more competitive than getting accepted at HPYSM. You want to cast a wide net, but time is a resource too. Do you cross some off the list because they are just too competitive and the chances so slim? Is there a resource out there that would save a lot of time and energy?

Could you/should you create tiers within this group, in terms of the competitiveness of getting the respective awards? How would you do it?

Noticing things like this - Wash & Lee vs. Davidson - seems that there are way more Johnson than Belk awards available. So it isn’t as straight forward as overall rankings. (This is the kind of intel I would love to find, all in one place if possible!)

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Look at the number of scholarships given. As you noted…there aren’t very many Belk awards at Davisdon…but the school is much smaller than UVA, for example.

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<<<
top 1% percentile on standardized tests
<<<

That’s nice, but top 1% at the top schools that is, well, nearly everyone. Top 1% is something like an ACT 33+. At schools like Vandy, Duke, WashU…that’s everyone but the athletes/talent and other hooked students.

To get selected at the best schools for merit awards, a student needs more than stats…since the competition is full of high stats. The down-selection is going to involve “more”. The purpose of those awards is to poach students who the schools believe will be Ivy accepted and/or help the schools with their diversity numbers.

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Assume you are talking about merit, not FA, right? There is a site, I believe college data, that u can search by % of students receiving non-need based aid, and the average aid amount. This will show you schools like BC or Duke, who do give merit, but only 1% of applicants, vs some other schools who give a bit less in terms of $, but to a much larger % of students.

I would include a few “reach” (from a merit perspective) schools, and some financial safeties, based on this data. Obviously, factoring in personal likes, location, major…etc

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My D and I tried to find this information last year and did not find any compilation other than what the good folks of this site have put together.

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@suzy100 It is collegedata - I just pulled it up:

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/search/college/college_search_tmpl.jhtml

There is a checkbox you can choose in the search “Merit Aid- include Only Students Without Financial Need” The results will show you what % get merit aid. However, I don’t see the average aid per student, I know I saw that somewhere. If I come accross it again, I will update this thread.

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Thanks @suzyQ7. I think the problem with that data is that it shows percentages and average aid per student, but I wanted to know how many applicants got the BIG merit. I just ended up checking out the website for each school to see if they gave that info, and then let my daughter decide whether she thought it was worth it to try or not. This is probably helpful data for others, though.

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The following thread has some information on automatic merit scholarships for a kid like the OP’s.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1845583-merit-scholarships-for-students-in-top-5-to-top-10-percent-with-33-act-p1.html

This might give a good base of safety schools from which to build on.

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@mom2collegekids - I can see what you mean in terms of the applicant pool at some of the schools I listed. Duke, Wash U and Vandy certainly. Or any top 20 school. I agree and it seems intuitive that they wouldn’t give out any merit for stats alone, even perfect scores and grades. Unhooked you would assume you need to set yourself apart somehow. Even then, still may be essentially impossible for a white kid that hasn’t cured cancer.

What about at the other end though? Georgia and Clemson for example. Foundation Fellows at GA or National Scholars at Clemson. Given the middle ACT 25/75 range of 26 to 31. Is this a bit of a different ball game? Still very competitive, stats alone won’t cut it. Polish, essays, interview skills, etc. Good leadership, varsity sports. NMF and 35 or 36 on ACT. Can you get there?

Like @suzy100 I am only asking about the big merit, not discounts from sticker. I am assuming the Alabama and Kentucky automatic merit as safeties, looking for reaches. These programs (GA and Clemson) look amazing, and are more than just scholarships.

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http://www.clemson.edu/academics/programs/national-scholars/people/

For Clemson at least, observing that racial diversity doesn’t appear to be the selection focus.

Thanks to all for comments and suggestions.

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Don’t mean to be a downer, just want to mention it’s late in the season for a lot of scholarships. Many are awarded on a rolling, as long as money holds out, basis.

So read the fine print so you don’t waste time on unlikely prospects, and of course, get right on it.

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@alooknac You are right on this. For example, for UNC and the Morehead-Cain scholarship, I noted that unless you are from certain HS, you would typically have to apply early action (nonbinding) to swing for that one in particular.

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I am assuming you are speaking of a junior, OP? And that the flagship is just to be assumed for sake of argument?

In that case, I wouldn’t take any of those schools off the list just yet, unless your kid wants them removed. My next step would be getting the kid to start doing some research of their own, if that’s not happening. Your list, and situation, is very similar to ours. I would/have different ways to rank: NPC$ vs. NPC-GuaranteedMerit$ (if diff) vs. Possible COA (best case; includes competitive merit).

I think 12-15 schools seems doable if you can get an early start. You will probably find a couple more schools that come close to your criteria. Find out what your kid wants to do. Make sure that the schools you are considering will allow the kid to graduate in 4 years(!). This is hard to do unless you have an idea of major, and can look at programs/schedules. Get on the mailing lists, contact admissions reps, find out when they visit, schedule a campus visit to those highest on your list. Understand which ones care about showing ‘interest’, and use your time accordingly. Coach your kid in interviews and essays, and make sure they learn a lot about the schools on the list by the time it’s time to do essays and/or interview.

See you at accepted student weekend. Good luck!

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As an example, does anyone know how many full tution merit scholarships are awarded by Vanderbilt?

The latest Vanderbilt Common Data Set says that 147 freshman (out of 1607 ) were awarded an average non-need based award of $18,787.

The Vanderbilt website lists the scholarships (some grant a full tuition plus small awards) but I can’t find how many full tuition awards are granted. The NMF award is small.

Vanderbilt (and Duke) are often mentioned as schools that offer merit awards. My DS did not apply to Vanderbilt so I am not too familiar with Vanderbilt specific info, but my best guess is that these full tuition scholarships are really for the most extraordinary applicants (much more than high stats).

In regards to merit scholarships, the warning I have is that while $20,000 merit scholarships sounds wonderful, there is still a lot of money left to pay (as much as $50,000 at some schools). And tuition goes up every year but merit scholarships (unless they cover full tuition) mostly don’t. Also watch out for the required GPA to retain the scholarship.

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I don’t believe this is true. 1% of Duke’s applicants will be about 300 people and that many don’t get merit money at Duke as far as I know.

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Merit at UNC, for OOS very unlikely.

Wash U not very likely.

Also the competition/interview weekends at some of these schools might overlap.

I don’t know about these other schools but you might be further ahead to try for Eminence at OSU or University Fellows at UA if the student has top stats. Maybe Clemson and UGA if he wants to try.

Also what are the GPA requirements to keep scholarship? If student is looking at engineering that might be an important consideration.

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Several years ago, my high stats DD2: 2230 SAT, 35 ACT, SAT II Bio 780, Math2 740, NMF, 7APs, 3.9 U/W GPA multi sport varsity athlete, national level science competition finalist, good E/Cs, service, recs, etc. was one of 39 Clemson National Scholars Finalists, she is OOS. She attended the scholarship weekend, but was not offered the scholarship. They make approx. 15 offers, with a goal of enrolling approx. 10 scholars. She received 3 other full tuition scholarship offers from other schools. Clemson has a very nice campus and very strong nursing and engineering programs. The same daughter also applied to Wake Forest and was not invited to compete for their big scholarships.

You may have more options for merit $ if you consider LACS. Many have very strong science programs and may offer big merit. DD2 attends the University of Richmond on a full tuition scholarship and is majoring in Biochemistry. UR gives approx. 45 full tuition/full-ride scholarship each year and has apporx,.3,000 undergrads. DD2 started working in a lab doing research during her freshman year and also had a paid summer internship last year, which she can continue during summers until she graduates. She is likely publish and is currently is a sophomore. DD1 is currently a senior at UR and double majoring in Biochemistry and Computer Science. DD1 stats were slightly higher than sister, 2300 SAT, 1600 CR +Math, rest of stats similar. UR offered her a full-ride. She also has been working in a lab and has published and attended conferences. DD1 also spent a semester abroad at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, paid for completely by her scholarship. Both daughters have worked as lab/teaching assistants also.

LACs often offer great opportunities for undergrad students interested in research,( in humanities and business as well as science( UR guarantees all students at least one paid research experience, if they want it). UR has been fantastic so far, with small class sizes, great professors, many clubs, nice campus and local area, etc.

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@mamag2855 - thank you for sharing. That really helps me understand just how tough it is to get these competitive big merit awards. I like your suggestions on LACs. I am going to suggest Centre, Furman, Richmond, Rhodes and Sewanee to DS and see if he wants to add to his initial list.

@2muchquan - DS is only a sophomore, so yes plenty of time to play this out. Some of this is only assumptions on my part about what his stats will ultimately be and what options he will have available. 3 APs this year, a dozen by the time he graduates. 4.0 UW, 4.2+W, 1 out of 363 in class currently. Sophomore PSAT (doesn’t count) without prep, 1430 (720 R&W, 710 M), 215 SI. Depending on who you believe, that may be good enough this year for NMSF in KY. Perfect score on ACT Explore in 8th grade. Optimistic but not unreasonable predictions on where he might be a couple of years from now. Our in-state publics are affordable, not selective and are pretty generous to the top students, especially those who are in-state. I will take your advice, and suggest to him not scratch any school until he needs to, even though our appreciation of the competitiveness continues to grow. Honestly, not going to “do” much of anything yet except think about it. Will get busy junior year.

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You may want to look at Furman Scholars and Wofford Scholars programs. Both require application in the early spring of their Junior year.

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After perusing websites, noting the estimated total number of big merit awards (full tuition or greater) at the schools mentioned in this thread, vs. the estimated total size of the freshman classes of the schools mentioned in this thread. I excluded the top 20 schools (Duke, Wash U and Vandy). 13 schools total, approximately 250-300 awards vs. 40k incoming freshmen each year. Significantly less than 1% of the incoming class. And this is skewed by a couple of schools (Richmond and Wash & Lee) where the percentage is higher (5 to 10%).

Conclusion - chasing big merit at top 100 national Us or top 50 LACs is a tough business to be in.