<p>My gripe isn’t against a student needing to take a remedial class. It is against students who take the same remedial class (ie: an Intro to Algebra class or a pre-English 1A class) over and over and over. There should be a limit–2 times per class. If a student flunks the same class twice, they can take it again, but at full price (whatever it truly costs the community college) rather than at the state-funded sticker price.</p>
<p>Remedial classes are useful for us “oldtimers” returning to college. At age 57 I had forgotten most of my 9th grade algebra. When I decided to return to college, I spent a solid month of 8-10 hour days, 7 days a week studying algebra. I visited with a tutor a total of probably 20 hours. I was hoping to do well enough on the placement test to get into college algebra, but fell slightly short, so I am taking the remedial intermediate algebra course. </p>
<p>It really doesn’t matter to me that where I take the remedial class, at a community college, a remedial high school, private entity of some kind, whatever. I am just glad that the remedial class is available. </p>
<p>Most of the students in my intermediate algebra class are traditional college age students. However, there are a handful of us more seasoned adults taking the class. :)</p>
<p>Thankfully, I scored high enough on the reading and writing placement tests to qualify for honors classes. In addition to taking 3 classes at the CC, I am now studying geometry on my own to relearn what I forgot from my high school geometry class 42 years ago!</p>
<p>but we have made the committment as a community college to offer the courses that our students need</p>
<p>I guess my question is: why are remedial students considered “college students?” Why aren’t they offered the classes they might need on a pre-college basis? Much the same as immigrants can study English language and writing skills- and then, with this new level of preparedness, apply for admission? Can’t there be a distinction beween students who are not prepared for even the lowest level of degree-fulfilling classes and those who are?</p>
<p>We have a parallel problem in my state U, where you can apply with a C average and weak scores. These are the kids in the 100 and 200 level classes who struggle to such a degree that the profs cannot keep an ordinary U pace. It affects the kids who covered the material in hs and chose the stste U for many reasons, including lower costs.</p>
<p>I’m a tutor at a community college (I’m also a community college alum), and I have to say that it’s time for community colleges to tighten up their admissions policies and academic standards. The “open admissions” policy is just another way for these institutions to make money. The sad part is, community colleges (such as the one I work at), tell student applicants what I call “The Great Lie”: that college is for everyone. As politically incorrect as this may sound, college is NOT for everyone, and just because someone wants to go to college doesn’t mean they belong there. The Great Lie is nothing more than a marketing tool for community colleges to get that federal aid from students, many of whom have little to no academic ability. </p>
<p>For example, at the community college I work at, the majority of students are over the age of 30, have never used a computer, so they lack basic technology skills (i.e. using Microsoft Word, e-mail, how to use a flash drive), they don’t understand the importance of Standard English as it relates to academic writing, and many are not fluent in English because English is their 3rd, 4th, 5th language. Many of the students who do speak English as their first language are academically deficient because they have been out of school for years - decades in some cases. </p>
<p>What’s even worse is that a lot of the students I tutor are academically lazy. They show no initiative to learn anything on their own, and they expect the tutors to do their work for them. When I was a community college student, I tried to figure things out on my own before seeking outside assistance. When I needed to learn MLA & APA formatting for scholarly papers, I took the initiative to learn the proper formats - I didn’t run to the tutoring center for help. If I needed help with my math, I tried to figure out the problem on my own and with help from my professors. If I needed additional help, only then would I seek tutoring. </p>
<p>Community colleges are great because they are economical, but they need to stop pandering to deficient students for the sake of the almighty dollar.</p>
<p>schlarlymama: wow, I am truly sorry for your environment. It sounds miserable. But my experience with community college was vastly different. I was surrounded by bright students of all ages and most of the time the older students were the most motivated. I received my Associate degree in nursing and no one in my nursing class was unmotivated or deficient - if they were they didn’t graduate and flunked out.</p>
<p>I later started my English degree (sadly, had to postpone due to family health issues) at CC and was very impressed with the caliber of some of my peers. Maybe it is because I am from a rural area with more attending CC… not sure why my experience is so different. Of course, I didn’t see it from the inside but my view did not support what you are going through.</p>
<p>I agree with you to an extent about tightening up admissions but that may leave out some brilliant kids who had a troubled home life in high school or had to drop out and get their ged - or other major concerns. Maybe give them less chance to fail? I know in my nursing class you were able to flunk a semester but if you flunked it the second time, or any subsequent semesters your were done.</p>
<p>Community colleges are so many different things to so many different people. For some, it is a place to redeem yourself and improve skills before moving on, it is a stepping stone for some, for others it is a place to just obtain knowledge, and then those that go there for fun classes/ activities. To me, a community college has to have an open door policy in order to continue to have the “something for everyone” community presence. So much tax money goes into the CC, that they have to be welcoming. </p>
<p>I do NOT think that CC’s should be graded on their graduation rates. So many people enroll for a limited reason, and not to seek a degree. It is not fair to include those numbers in enrolled/graduation rates. </p>
<p>As for the 30 milion in remedial classes, the public schools could take part of that burden. But even if you shifted the 30 million to the public schools and ear marked it for remedial classes, it is not likely to make that much difference. At least the 30 million at the CC is being spent on student who choose to be in the remedial class and learning. Not true at many public schools.</p>
<p>They should offer the classes at middle schools/high schools after school, but still have them part of the community college. They’d still have to pay for the teaching faculty, but it wouldn’t affect the size of the school. Or, they could make them use an online learning tool (like MyMathLab), and have student tutors available. </p>
<p>Remember that some adults might get stuck in remedial courses, not because they’re stupid and don’t care, but it’s been a while since they’ve been in school, or they’re immigrants, and need help with English.</p>
<p>Also, I agree with scholarlymama’s part about “college not being for everyone.” There are some that are meant more for labor and others that are meant to be thinkers. And you know what? We can’t all be! Not everyone can be a doctor or an engineer, it’s that simple. Instead, the government should make it easier for lowly, minimum wage workers to get by. I mean, I had a friend whose dad lost his job when I was younger, and (somewhat foolishly), I asked,“But _______, I bet that the restaurant down the street needs a hire, why doesn’t he go there?” In response, he explained to me, “No, we’d be getting basically the same amount of money, so it doesn’t matter.” It’s a bit sad that it works this way.</p>
<p>Now, I’m not saying that half of the country should be ignorant, but it’d better if work didn’t have to revolve around college, and apprenticeships or other training could still get you somewhere. I understand that the world is changing, but it’s a shame when college graduates are in debt and without a job.</p>
<p>Sorry that this was somewhat off topic, by the way.</p>
<p>there needs to be some kind of cut off. In my town, if you say you are going to community college, it means you have failed nearly every high school class you’ve ever taken and that NO OTHER COLLEGE would EVER even think about accepting you. Which hurts when some of us can’t afford a big university and are forced to go there. If we can at least draw the line somewhere, the image of these colleges can be cleaned up and we can at least call them COLLEGES then.</p>
<p>“In my town, if you say you are going to community college, it means you have failed nearly every high school class you’ve ever taken and that NO OTHER COLLEGE would EVER even think about accepting you.”</p>
<p>This may be true for some students, but many other students are going to their local community college because it offers similar coursework at a fraction of the cost of a 4-year college. A large number of students did not do well enough to get into the college of their choice, but that does not mean that they “failed nearly every high school class”.</p>
<p>It has been my experience that while community colleges are easy to enter, they are hard leave with a degree in hand. Those who do succeed tend to out-perform their colleagues when they pursue a Bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>The remainder may have very different needs beyond a transfer degree. Many are pursuing vocational/professional degrees or certificates. Others just need a course or two to help them succeed in their current jobs.</p>
<p>It would be great if community colleges did not have to teach remedial subjects, but it is quite clear that a significant portion of their students need such help. Without it, those students are going nowhere. I can point to countless stories of students who, like mspearl (#19) went on to challenging and rewarding careers after starting out in remedial courses.</p>
<p>I am a 34 year old single mom who is a current community college student (now called state colleges in Florida), and I, for one, am thankful for remedial classes and second chances. I can’t even imagine being told that I could not further my education and get my son and myself out of poverty because I’m behind in math. My high school only required 3 math credits for graduation, and they could be any math. My highest math in HS was pre-algebra. That has changed now and I believe they require 3 credits, Algebra I and above.</p>
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<p>The problem with this approach is that it leads to institutional grade inflation. This is endemic to all colleges that raise their prices. Community colleges, because they don’t keep up with the rest of the country in price hikes have remained relatively immune from this trend -> [National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.gradeinflation.com/]National”>http://www.gradeinflation.com/). </p>
<p>So sure, a student could pay double, but they’re also more likely to get an A they didn’t deserve.</p>