Should high school level courses taken before high school count as credit on a transcript for college purposes

Applying to College
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MOD NOTE: This post was split from another thread.

Thanks, OP, for bringing up this topic, which is very relevant to us.

I’m very surprised at some replies saying high school level courses taken before high school could be omitted from a high school transcript. High school level courses, regardless when taken, must be included in the high school transcript. There is no discretion about this, so anyone taking high school level courses “early” had better be prepared to have the result be part of their permanent record. Also, some courses in the list of high school graduation requirements are commonly taken earlier, so obviously it wouldn’t even work to have these omitted. Perhaps different states/regions do things differently.

Also I don’t see why a HS level course taken at MS should be seen as anything less than ones taken at HS. An advanced MS could have a tougher version of a course than an average HS. And at an online school, MS and HS students can be in the same virtual classroom taking exactly the same HS class. And in any case there is a huge variation in rigor between schools, that colleges have to try to sort out, so they shouldn’t judge courses taken earlier by advanced students as being inferior to courses taken later by average students.

I’m really appalled by the description of colleges restricting their view to just what’s taken in grades 9-12, instead of looking at the whole history of HS level courses. This seems to favor students that have access to a cookie cutter lineup of courses and a range of nice schools. It’s not good for families that have not always had good options, and have had to scramble and improvise to piece together an education, which can veer from the conventional progression.

S24 did not have a good/safe school option, so we had to homeschool for some years. He ended up with a year of calculus in grade 8 (and a bunch of other math earlier). He then switched to a virtual charter for grade 9, but they had no math courses for him, so he took no math course in grade 9 (though he did the AP Calc BC test (5) to confirm the homeschool math). He then switched to a great selective public, with no AP courses at all, but with a selection of courses up to college sophomore level (some running rarely though). For example in Grade 10 he did Linear Algebra and Abstract Algebra (and similar level in grades 11-12). Imagine what a college sees if they only look at grades 9-12. The whole history of conventional HS math courses, Alg1-Calc, would be erased, then no math in Grade 9, then suddenly Lin Alg and Abs Alg in Grade 10. They could fairly think it is quite a weird transcript, but would they really disqualify him for no math in grade 9, when overall there’s clearly more rigor than most people have?

D27 has been at virtual charter for grades 7-9, doing mostly HS courses since grade 7, and DE in grade 9, and she’ll switch to selective public to build on that, with plenty of rigor up to college sophomore level. But she’s taking no English course in grade 9! She took the first two required HS English in grades 7-8, and (because reasons) the third in grade 9 would have been redundant, since it wouldn’t advance her a level, and wouldn’t contribute to HS graduation, and she’ll have enough English later (5 in 6 years). Would colleges really disqualify her for no English in grade 9, when overall there’ll clearly be more rigor than most people have?

Several people seemed to imply that elite colleges would essentially disqualify an applicant for lack of a core subject like Math or English in grade 9 (and erase pre-grade-9 HS coursework) despite having more rigor than most people have?

Sorry, I’m freaking out here, because people seem to be saying our S24 and D27 are doomed. I realize that chances at elite colleges are low generally, but it’s important to know critical factors. And sorry OP I don’t mean to thread hijack, but you raised issues that are a big part of our situation, (and I wasn’t even aware of this), so I had to ask posters here.

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Required? No. That is a school district decision.

And if you homeschool, you get to make this decision.

If HS level courses are taken prior to 9th grade, this will be apparent on the HS transcript. Students who complete FL 1 and 2 in middle school…and have only 3 and 4 on the high school transcript, clearly will have taken 1 and 2 at some point on time. Same with accelerated math. Those other prerequisite courses taken at MS will be apparent to adcoms reading the application.

I can tell you for sure…my kids took Spanish 1 and 2 in middle school. This was not on their high school transcript.

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This is not the case everywhere. In our school district, accelerated 8th graders take algebra 1, which is a HS-level course, but I don’t believe it shows up on the HS transcript because it’s taken in MS. Maybe there’s a notation on the HS transcript that they took Algebra 1, but there’s no grade, and it doesn’t affect GPA. Same with accelerated placement in foreign languages. Even if a rising 9th grader decides to get a HS PE class out of the way the summer before starting 9th grade, that course will appear on the transcript, but not the grade – the student would get course credit, but it would not affect GPA (essentially a P/F course, even though it’s graded for students who have started HS). In our district, there are no other HS classes that would be taken in middle school (8th graders who are advanced in English take English 8H, with no high school level option), except among very few highly accelerated math students who go beyond Algebra in 8th grade. They might take those classes in the HS, so I’m not sure how that shows up.

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S25 took two high school classes in 8th grade. Neither are on his transcript.

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All 8th graders in our public school district take the integrated math equivalent of Algebra 1. This doesn’t show up on the HS transcript, so it isn’t visible when applying to out of state and private colleges. When kids apply to our state universities (UCs and CSUs), however, they are instructed to enter Algebra 1 into the system as a class taken in 8th grade.

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I think the point is that there is no universal rule on how HS level courses taken in Middle school are reported on the HS transcript or how they are accepted by each college.

Another CA HS parent where my kids took Algebra 1 and Geometry along with Spanish 1 in Middle school which are HS level classes . None of these classes were listed on their HS transcript but reported for the Cal states and UC’s. These 2 school systems only recognize Math and LOTE courses from Middle school as High School level.

English or other HS level classes would be not be considered by the UC’s and CSU’s so 4 years of English is a hard requirement.

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The questions you bring up are important, but I think it would be a good idea to start a separate thread to discuss these questions with respect to your kids. A student who homeschools for some years, or switches schools, will be viewed differently by colleges than a student who attends an established high school and skips core classes.

Parents on this site have a very broad range of experiences and I’m sure there are some parents who can help shed light on your situation :slight_smile:

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Absolutely not. No student who is as successful in advanced math as your kids clearly are is doomed. It will be abundantly clear to AOs that the prerequisite math courses happened before high school. It is not common for kids to have taken so much advanced math before high school – but for high-achieving math kids, its not terribly rare, either, so it won’t be something AOs have never seen before. Either the student or the counselor can explain the circumstances. You’ve got the AP scores to verify the achievement. As for English for your D27, I think that would probably require an explanation, but for students who change schools a lot, some inconsistencies are pretty common, I think.

The reason middle school grades don’t count on HS transcripts is that middle school students are not high school students – the expectations are different, the students are different, and even if a student has taken HS-level courses, districts can’t have different policies for different students. What matters is achievement in high school, and wherever a student starts in high school (in terms of level of courses, etc.) is the baseline.

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No, one of my points is that you cannot necessarily back-extrapolate like this. That only works for courses arranged in a simple linear path, hence my reference to “cookie-cutter” course lineups.

If the first math in HS is Linear Algebra, you cannot necessarily deduce that Calculus was previously taken.
If the first math in HS is Calculus, you cannot necessarily deduce whether or which of precalc/trig/Alg3/AdvMath was previously taken.
If the first math in HS is Geometry, you cannot necessarily deduce that Algebra 1 was previously taken.
If the first math in HS is Algebra 2, you cannot necessarily deduce that Geometry was previously taken?
If someone took Alg2, they probably previously took Alg1, but how can you be sure without documenting it. What if Alg1 is required for HS graduation, but forbidden from being listed if taken too early? What if a math whiz kid picked up all the Alg1 stuff without ever taking a formal course (precluding HS graduation)?
If HS level math courses taken before grade 9 are not listed, how could one deduce that such courses in probability, number theory, statistics, various discrete math or other topics, were taken?

If the first science in HS is Chemistry, you cannot necessarily deduce that Biology was previously taken.
If the first science in HS is Physics, you cannot necessarily deduce that Chemistry was previously taken.
Is Physical Science a beginner course taken before Bio or an advanced course taken after Chem?

There is a wide variety of Social Studies courses that could in principal be taken in any order, so no one such course implies that some other such course was previously taken.

I could go on.

The idea that from only knowing what was done in grades 9-12 would enable one to know what happened before is totally incorrect. It’s unbelievable that colleges would do this.

In S24’s case, his transcript does include all HS level courses taken at all times (as is required locally - apparently practices are not uniform globally), and this is submitted in college apps. But will some colleges, intentionally truncate their view to only what occurs in grades 9-12? This hurts students that had an unconventional path.

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Why? The college adcoms will see this unconventional path.

BUT this is getting very off topic to this thread.

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They may not know exactly which courses were previously taken, but depending on the university system, they may use an advanced course to validate a broader requirement of a certain number of semesters or years in a subject.

The most obvious example of validating a requirement in this way is a higher level of a foreign language validating a requirement of a certain number of years in FL. But a university may also validate a math requirement this way.

For example, for the Cal State universities, “A letter grade of C or better in the second semester of an area C course with a discipline of Precalculus, Calculus, or Other Advanced Mathematics on the A-G website validates the entire high school college preparatory requirement.”

source: https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/_files/documents/csu-uc-a-g-comparison-matrix.pdf

Note that the CSUs are still looking for a certain number of years of math for an applicant to be competitive; but they don’t have to see “Algebra” and “Geometry” on the transcript in order to validate the math requirement that a student takes these subjects.

Your children clearly took an unconventional path. Holistic college and university admission offices will do their best to evaluate your kids appropriately, and even non-holistic ones (such as the CSUs) can accommodate some differences in the path, as in the above example.

However, I will reiterate that you and your children are in a very different situation than the OP, who is contemplating having their child skip some years of core classes in an otherwise conventional high school.

That’s why you need a new thread :wink:

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The typical sequence is almost always: Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2/Trig, Precalc, Calc, etc.

So if a kid starts HS with Geometry and then goes to Algebra 2, then yes, you can deduce that Algebra 1 was taken, or that the kid acquired Algebra 1 skills somehow. If a 9th grader starts with Calc AB, then maybe you don’t know for sure that they took precalc, but you can deduce that they acquired those skills somehow, as well as the skills for Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra II/Trig. Because they can’t take Calc without that background.

Point being: what matters is what they do in HS, as a foundation for college, regardless of what level they start with when they start HS. The college application tells a story of who this student has been in the most recent years of education, which will predict as closely as possible the student they will become. It’s not about grades achieved in specific classes before that.

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I think you are slightly underestimating how unconventional an education can possibly be :grin: Usually people don’t start Calc without all the other usual math classes leading up to it… but I went to an alternative school where my math education literally stopped in 3rd grade. I went straight from long division in 3rd grade, to Calculus as a college freshman (I didn’t know any better, so I simply enrolled in the standard first year college math class). I had to check out some books from the library to catch up on some things, but I managed to pass and actually do well in the class. It’s not IMPOSSIBLE to study Calc without prior math… it’s just not recommended :laughing:

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Thanks all. I think what set me off was the idea that a “gap year” in a core subject is a grave and consequential mistake. It appears that in our circumstances, it is more like something that should be explained, but is otherwise okay in context.

Anyway, S24’s apps are all in and he learns his fate within 6 weeks. And for D27 it’s a few years away. So there’s no urgent actionable information needed right now (it’s either too late or too early). And OP sorry if this was a thread hijack.

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… which is why I said “typical.” Anecdotes, evidence, etc.

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Except for CPSLO, it mostly does not matter if the applicant does that for UCs and CSUs, since they assume that a passing grade in algebra 2 fulfills algebra 1 as well.

But CPSLO counts total math courses for bonus points, so entering high school level math taken in middle school on the CSU application is important there.

But note that no such validation of lower level courses is given for English.

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Most high school subjects are not the kind where a higher level necessarily implies knowing the lower level.

Foreign language is the obvious exception, where a higher level implies all of the lower levels.

Math is somewhat of an exception for most typical high school courses. Basically, calculus implies precalculus which implies algebra 2 which implies algebra 1. Beyond calculus at the college level, math paths diverge (e.g. linear algebra and discrete math do not necessarily imply calculus, although multivariable calculus and differential equations do).

But English generally is not leveled in this manner.

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Local HS district dictate it’s own policy when it comes to granting course credit. Colleges have no say on this.

If you are using Algebra 1 as an example, then IMO that’s more a MS class. Just because it’s offered in HS, doesn’t make it a must to be included. Just like basic math is offered in colleges, doesn’t make it “college level.”

My own kids took 3 years of foreign language at an outside school. But because our HS doesn’t have an agreement with that place, we can’t claim credit. Based on your statement we “must” include that, then looks like we are hiding something, when in reality, there is just no place to put those A grades on the application.

Personally, my kids take classes for their learning. They don’t need to game the GPA system for gains.

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This seems to be a discussion only relative to public school kids, as private school kids take high school-level courses regularly during the middle school years. Not to mention, pretty much every private school student takes a foreign language starting in first grade and often starts 9th grade in Spanish/French 2 or 3.

None of these classes show up on a high school transcript.

I know my S22 had taken Alg 1 and Geometry in middle school (like thousands of other kids). I just had the counselor note on her rec that he had taken Geometry in MS, just so it wouldn’t be left out of the sequence. Alg 1 is more assumed.

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As with others: local publics and private schools around here all have Algebra 1 in 7th as the top level (as many as a third of kids do it at some schools), and then a few schools have a few kids each who take it in 6th. Foreign language starts early in publics and in privates, leading to 9th grade as level 2 or 3 depending on school path and background. None of these go on the HS transcript. Even in the public schools. Even 30 yrs ago in my large public district we did Algebra in 8th and FL level 1 in 8th. Not listed on any transcript from HS, and was not submitted to colleges(paper apps). Home schoolers in our state are advised by the in-state schools to take 4 years of English and 4 yrs of math during 9-12th grade, if they plan on taking 4 years to complete HS and want to apply to the more competitive public colleges, but—colleges do say they evaluate home school curricula individually . As far as I recall, the common app only allows listing of 9-12th courses, though of course one could certainly submit relevant middle school coursework in the additional info section. I am sure your kids will be evaluated in context.

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