<p>*To me, saying that community service should be done by those who actually want to do it is like saying that doing regular exercise or taking academic courses should be done only by those teens and children who really want to do these things.</p>
<p>School provides the main way that society socializes our youth. Many young people would not know about the joys of giving back unless their schools required them to do community service*</p>
<p>I agree-
Do we give them a choice to how much math is required or history? ( I realize our state- only requires a meager 2 years of math for graduation and that is pathetic)</p>
<p>I lean even more heavily on the benefits of community service, and would like to see more hours required not necessarily in high school, but before students are 25- just as we require males to register for the military when they turn 18.
I don’t think it is being “forced” on students- the range of opportunities available is tremendous, its not like everyone is being channeled into scooping horse poop at the zoo like my daughters have done for example.</p>
<p>But the volunteers often get as much or more out of it, than those they are helping & that feeling will stay with them for a long time.</p>
<p>Isn’t there something inherently strange about the concept of “mandatory volunteerism?”</p>
<p>As a teacher in Maryland I can tell you that in many cases schools have simply adopted ways to help the kids fill their requirement. How valid their efforts are is highly debatable to a great extent. The thing is though like so many other things it just becomes another requirement to get out of the way.
It’s more of a hassle for teachers and kids than anything else IMO.</p>
<p>“I lean even more heavily on the benefits of community service, and would like to see more hours required not necessarily in high school, but before students are 25- just as we require males to register for the military when they turn 18.”</p>
<p>I throughly agree with the idea that all U.S. citizens should be required to do some kind of community service of their choice. I’d lower the age requirement, however to about age 19 because I know that many young people would put off this requirement as long as possible, and as they get family and job responsibilities, squeezing in the CS time would become increasingly difficult.</p>
<p>For those who become parents at young ages, having to do mandatory CS actually would increase their work skills and employability, too.</p>
<p>I agree that 10 hours a year is essentially nothing. But, then again, so is the a) societal benefit; b) personal benefit of only ten hours a year. </p>
<p>Los Angeles Unified School District, comprised of primarily URMs, has a 50% dropout rate, and that’s BEFORE the state high school exist exam. Is it really in society’s interest to give these kids another reason not to graduate?</p>
<p>Actually, I think that requiring CS would give those students more of a reason to graduate because CS can raise their awareness of the world and how they can positively impact it. That boost in self efficacy could lead them to be more interested in graduating.</p>
<p>I understand what you’re saying, bluebayou. The hope is that kids will become engaged with whatever organization they’re involved with and will continue that relationship past the required hours. Not everyone will, obviously, but for those who do, it can definitely have a societal benefit as well as a personal one. I think that there are situations where 40 hours, even if that’s all they ever do, can also be beneficial.</p>
<p>I’m well aware that there are school districts in the U.S. where there are very high dropout rates. I was simply relating our situation here in the most populous province in Canada, with approximately 13 million people, and how it is working here. Doesn’t mean it will work everywhere! :)</p>
<p>I rarely disagree with you, but I’d love to see the data that show that adding CS to a HS curriculum can help keep kids in school. Don’t forget, Los Angeles has nearly zero public transportation, and many kids are bussed 90+ minutes one way to school, not arriving home until after 7:00 pm each day.</p>
<p>I also agree with this. Of course, much depends on how the program was set up. But with my kids the CS required for instance by Beta Club was very narrow–and mine highly resented doing the hours in areas in which they had little interest or skill, but those happened to be the ones that fit their schedule. </p>
<p>On the other hand, D. worked for years with a handicapped riding program (her interest and skill revolved around horses). Son did many volunteer hours through sports–working at underprivileged days camps, etc. (his interest and skill was soccer and basketball).</p>
<p>mkm, My kids also have many hours of varied types of community service. They are not required to do volunteer, but they do so because they would like to give something back to their community (as cliche as that sounds, it is a fact), and by participated they were given the opportunity to try new things, had leadership roles, met new people, learned to organize a project and so on. The key is that they wanted to do it, and not they were required to do it. I think that if students are required to do the service, many will have the same enthusiasm as they would have had if they volunteered on their own, but many would just be lazy, take short cuts, try to scam the person in charge to get out of it, etc.</p>
<p>Yes, northeastmom, there will be those who “work” the system. And this is another job to put on who? GC?–most in public schools can’t keep up with the required “paperwork” they have now. Administration?–don’t think they will be wearing that hat. Classroom teacher? Volunteer teachers??–have trouble getting clubs, etc sponsored now and this would be much more hassle.</p>
<p>That is exactly the problem that I see, Mkm, as the adminstrative end of CS is a giant job. It should be a paid position, since there is so much paperwork and organization involved. Unfortunately, it is usually dumped on the GCs, who already have too much to do.</p>
<p>^^ But if there’s to be a paid position added I’d much rather see an academic teacher added so more classes can be offered or class size reduced or see another GC added to reduce the workload GCs have so they can actually attempt to reasonably G and C a student instead of the woeful attempt being made now at most public schools.</p>
<p>our HS has a student/GC ratio of 750/1 – students who are aspiring to the UCs are told not to see a counselor until early senior year, after attending a group meeting. Students aspiring to private four year colleges see the GC after AP tests in Jr year. I’d much rather reduce class sizes (AP classes routinely have 35-40 kids) and/or GC ratios.</p>
<p>re the community service req at Ds school
students are given a form to have filled out- with and signed by their supervisor at the conclusion of service
what the counselor keep track of, is check off that that form is in.
Much in the way that when they have a pe waiver for participating in team sports, but the hours are kept track of by the coaches, that they then check it off when turned in.</p>
<p>While older Ds school required it, and she got started on it when she was 12, we were pleasantly surprised to see what a difference it seemed to make as well to colleges, both the length of her community service and the depth of it.</p>
<p>Perhaps if parents are really interested in supporting the counseling office at their school, they could help keep track of community service opportunities and hours, much as parents at Ds school help students prepare their applications and research colleges.(at her school they call it service learning)</p>
<p>Another reason for service learning is seen even with the students on CC. Some have no idea how to get a job, or what skills are required, imagine how clueless high school students are who aren’t preparing for post high school education.
Community service also helps them develop skills that they will need in the workplace, develop contacts to get those jobs, and can provide them with motivation to continue their ed, by exposing them to fields and careers that they wouldn’t have otherwise.
My daughters community service allowed her to make thousands of dollars every summer for money for college, at jobs that she really enjoyed that she wouldn’t have had the experience for, if she hadn’t participated in community service.
( one program in the high school-<a href=“http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/274906_robert22.html”>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/274906_robert22.html</a>)</p>
<p>I also wanted to point out- that I think Jamieson exagerated the differences between the students communities to make a point, the high school girl, actually lives in an area that is much more modest, than the area surrounding the elementary school, which encompasses quite large lakeview homes ( my mother grew up in a house two doors down from Leschi- not lakeview, but you could walk to there)</p>
<p>“Yes, northeastmom, there will be those who “work” the system. And this is another job to put on who? GC?–”</p>
<p>Many cities, including my small one have a volunteer clearinghouse that will keep track of adult and students’ volunteer hours and provide records that people can take to GCs, prospective employers, etc.</p>
<p>^Which is one reason that I don’t think it is worthwhile to REQUIRE community service. It will end up being a joke for those who do not want to participate b/c they will work the system, and teachers and administrators have too much to do than attempt to become babysitters for another program.</p>
<p>“I rarely disagree with you, but I’d love to see the data that show that adding CS to a HS curriculum can help keep kids in school. Don’t forget, Los Angeles has nearly zero public transportation, and many kids are bussed 90+ minutes one way to school, not arriving home until after 7:00 pm each day.”</p>
<p>I haven’t seen studies that say that CS would help keep kids in school. WHat I suggested was speculation due to the fact that many students who drop out come from families and neighborhoods in which they have never seen the connection between going to school and getting legitimate employment. Such students also may lack the basic job preparedness skills that students have who come from families with parents working legitimate jobs. Community service could help them learn the connection between education and getting a job, and also could help expose them to role models that could encourage them to finish high school and seek post high school training or education.</p>
<p>Your busing situation is, I think, unusual. I would imagine that lots of students drop out in LA because they don’t want to get up super early to get to school, and then get back home so late at night.</p>
