Should high schools require community service?

Parent Cafe
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<p>The pros and cons of this question are debated in “A lesson in compulsory service” because of a pilot program at several New Jersey high schools. “Depending on the outcome, New Jersey could become the second state, after Maryland, to make community service a graduation requirement.”</p>

<p>“A dissenting view is that compulsory community service is no way to teach the value of voluntary civic action. In any case, students at more than 80 percent of the nation’s public high schools do some form of community service, a 1999 study by the U.S. Department of Education found.”</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2NSZmZ2JlbDdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5NzAzMzQ5NCZ5cmlyeTdmNzE3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTQ=[/url]”>http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2NSZmZ2JlbDdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5NzAzMzQ5NCZ5cmlyeTdmNzE3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTQ=&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Our high school has a mandatory community service requirement (I can’t remember the actual number of hours), but what I have noticed is that it is a hard program to monitor. Some kids get signed off for service helping a specific teacher or doing something in the community, while others do something equally valuable, and don’t. Who passes judgement on what is considered “service” and what isn’t? </p>

<p>My own son already has over 100 hours of CS as a junior, but not one hour of that particular service can be applied towards the hours he needs for NHS (another 20 or so, at NHS sponsored events). It is not unheard of for kids to have upwards of 300 hours of service, while some kids are struggling to find something to do to just meet the minimum requirement. Many kids cobble together rather “iffy” CS commitments, sometimes signed off by mentors who do not really “count” hours, and let kids off the hook. It is so difficult to monitor.</p>

<p>I really like the idea of service being a community and school value. However, since our program is managed somewhat poorly, I would love to hear how other schools manage this particular requirement.</p>

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<p>At our school community service is very popular. The clubs and teachers make it a part of life in the school - of course we are living in China and the need is huge. IB students and NHS students do have CAS hours to complete for their program and club requirements but most of the kids who participate aren’t in those programs.
Thursday afternoon is Community service day and we have groups who teach English at several migrant schools and orphanages. We also have a group that goes to a retirement home and to a disabled kids home. Saturday morning is another opportunity to help at a children’s home with babies and toddlers. We have a very active Habitat group - more applicants than spaces available for trips and we have spots for 100 kids at different times in the year (my daughter went to Bangladesh this year and my son to a village in southern China). The basketball team just had an event with one of the kids homes this weekend - set up by the coach.
Our parent community is also involved - we currently are raising funds to re-roof one of the migrant schools.<br>
It’s part of the school spirit - a priority for kids and staff.</p>

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<p>Our public school in NH is very service minded and has a 40 hour community service graduation requirement. There is a service coordinator who compiles lists of volunteer opportunities for the kids and keeps track of their hours. There is a very active Habitat group and some schoolwide service projects. Most kids graduate with many more hours than are required.</p>

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<p>If it is required, then it is no longer volunteering, atlthough some won’t care if community service is voluntary or mandatory.</p>

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<p>Kentucky recently eliminated a community service requirement for its high school graduates.</p>

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<p>There are some schools that could really benefit from strong community service requirements. Those are the schools in communities that truly need some more hands contributing. Too often those schools offer too little in terms of activities anyways, and have too few kids participating in what is offered. And it’s not like many of them are spending that time on other productive activities. There should be some exemptions if hardships exist–the student is truly needed at home or has to work, but for many kids in that situation, a well designed, well monitored community service program could make a difference.</p>

<p>When you get to the the more middle class schools, the need is not so apparent, and you get an increasing number of kids who are already very busy during highschool either working at jobs, pursing their own interests, widening their own horizons, and a requirement could cause more stress and trouble than it is worth. Many of these kids are involved anyways without the requirement, and posing it too often becomes merely a bureaucratic exercise. For example, my son who is going to be confirmed this spring has a very busy schedule including what most people would consider heavy community service. Well, our church, more specifically the religious ed director who runs an outstanding CCD program with terrific community service opportunities, is a bit narrow in accepting community service hours unless they are through HER programs. The reason for this is that she has found that she cannot get sufficient participation and commitment for her truly excellent ideas and programs without REQUIRING ALL candidates to participate. My son has become a bit of a problem for her since his commitments are truly transcend her programs, and they have been a part of his life for a while. In this case, she had to begrudgingly give exception because the priest has been aware of my son’s track record in his activities, and has made his views known, but in most case, she will stand firm, not always the right decision. We had this problem at my son’s Catholic highschool which required community service. There was rampant miscounting of hours and poor monitoring (lot of “value billing” supported and created by the teachers themselves with their “I’ll give 3 hours for 1 if you come time at the track meet” sort of stuf, and at the same time inflexibility about some things that made no sense. My son, as an athlete, and also heavily involved in other long time commitiments , found it better for him to fulfill his hours during the summer. In total, he had far more than the required hours, and more than most kids with the work he did, but the school only allowed a small quota from the summer. So he ended up doing stuff at the school, that I really considered busy work, and unethical in the way it was being counted so that he got his hours. I also felt that most of the community service there was “make work” or assisting the teacher, coach or other school staff in doing their jobs. Though I don’t see a problem in having a community service requirement, I do see issues in a poorly designed and run program within the school, and that what too often happens. You need someone good to run these programs to make them strong, impact activities, not just going through the motions</p>

<p>In private schools like my son’s (my junior), though there is no requirement, there are so many opportunities and so many of the families, students and faculty participate, that you don’t need to impose any requirement. In addition, many of the kids have their own family or private projects. For that school to make it a requirement, would be one more bureacratic thing to add, and not useful at all.</p>

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<p>Our school has a community service requirement and a school service requirement. The CS is not a problem for my daughter as she really enjoys community service and has been involved for years and has many times more than the requirement. The service has to be documented by the organisation for which it is performed. School service she is almost there. One friend, that is one of the smartest kids in the school, is not even approaching the required CS hours with one semester to go till graduation. It is virtually impossible to get the CS hours during the semester as it is a residential school and they are not allowed off campus. She finds it hard to believe there will be any problem with graduating because her grades are stellar (and it is an extremely competitive school to get into). I am curious to see what happens. It is a very ‘political’ institution and I also find it hard to believe they will not graduate one of their ‘stars’ and all the bragging rights that go with her. </p>

<p>Our home town high school has just introduced a CS requirement - last year I think. I can see pros and cons with it being a requirement. The con would be if it is badly organised and inconsistenly administered. Overall I think the pros would outweigh the cons - just opening the kids eyes to the possibility of helping others out is a huge pro. Even if 1 kid out of 50 discovers that this is something they want to include in their lives it would be wonderful. And the other 49 that do it because they have to - well someone will have benefitted from the x hours they had to do.</p>

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<p>Once the requirement is well established, synergistic relationships develop within the community.</p>

<p>For example, in our Maryland community, where the community service requirement for graduation is an established fact, the county day camp system recruits massive numbers of volunteers, usually of early high school age, to work as counselors in training at various camps. The volunteers can complete their entire community service requirement for graduation in one 2- or 3-week session. It’s simple and efficient (though perhaps not what the people who designed the community service requirement had in mind).</p>

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<p>Son’s high school did not require CS for graduation, but Beta Club does require hours of CS. The problem, even with the club, was making the hours available to the students. As other posters have mentioned, many students are incredibly busy and the mandated hours to work don’t fit into their schedules. I know my son had some difficulty getting the hours in as the options available (approved) were at designated times and places–they often conflicted with sports schedule or work schedule. Personally, I think the schools need to stay away from this issue as a graduation requirement–too hard to oversee.</p>

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<p>In the province of Ontario, which is where we’re currently living and have lived off and on through our 4Ds high school years, every student who started h/s from 1999 on, has a 40 hour community service requirement in order to graduate. Each school board had to develop a list of approved activities, as well as the paperwork involved in keeping records of the service. In our board, when a student has chosen an activity from the approved list, there is a form to be completed notifying the school (and the individual who supervises the program) of the activity details. When it’s completed and the form is signed, it’s kept in the student’s file, as are subsequent completion forms. Each school board, in developing their program, had to consult with their parent councils, staff, and their insurers. There’s a long list on the provincial memorandum about ineligible activities. </p>

<p>I’m sure that there are some schools where it works more efficiently and effectively than at others but, in general, I think it’s a good idea, for the same reasons that swimcatsmom does. Most kids will take it seriously, volunteer their time effectively, and I know that most at my Ds schools did far more than the required number of hours. There will always be kids who wait until April of their last year of high school and then be scrambling to find somewhere to get their hours. Chances are that those kids are also the kids who are having other academic issues with completing required coursework for graduation. </p>

<p>One complaint that I’ve heard personally from a couple of organizations who previously would take kids in who were fulfilling these service requirements is that it is often not practical for them to do so. They spend time training the kids and get them in a position to actually “do” whatever the service is, then before they know it 40 hours is up and many of the kids leave. So, it really takes a special type of place, and activity, where it is practical for both sides in these programs. </p>

<p>From our experience, the programs are generally run pretty well at the school level, and things like timing at track meets, etc. such as was mentioned above, would not qualify. Nor would impromptu requests by individual teachers. Those things aren’t allowed. Overall, I think there are many more pros than cons, and many kids continue being involved in various aspects of their communities. I should mention also, that in our experience in living in both countries, the Canadians are much more involved in volunteer work than the Americans we know.</p>

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<p>What about the poor kids who have to work to support thier families? What about high schools with a 50% dropout rate? Is it in the public interest to add one more thing to a HS duty list when they aren’t able to teach the kids to read and write?</p>

<p>btw: college adcoms discount CS when a school or district requires it.</p>

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<p>I agree blue. At my children’s school it was the rare student who didn’t work. Some worked to help support the family and some worked to earn their own clothing and gas money–but most worked. I would rather the schools put more effort into raising academic quality rather than branching out into the CS arena.</p>

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<p>I believe that states should require all elementary, middle and high school students to do community service. This particularly is important for low income students because often they equate community service only with something one does to avoid prison, instead of being something that is everyone’s responsibility as a citizen.</p>

<p>While I came from a family that did community service, and have also raised my kids that way, lots of people do not do this. Consequently, unless required by their schools, many people will not be exposed to community service at all. </p>

<p>In addition, I think that many people who come from immigrant populations may not have grown up in cultures in which community service was a cultural norm. For instance, there are some cultures in which it’s considered admirable to help one’s relatives, but helping one’s community in general is not something that is a cultural norm.</p>

<p>While some people say that if community service is required, students won’t later be willing to do it on their own, I disagree. Going to school is required by the government, yet, more than half of high school graduates choose to further their education even though its not mandatory.</p>

<p>Also, just because something is required doesn’t mean it won’t be enjoyable.</p>

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<p>I don’t think CS should be a requirement in HS. There already isn’t enough time in the day for taking mainstream classes so CS would need to be done as an EC and not all students have the support or time to do it - i.e. some kids, mostly poor, working to support families and some kids/families without adequate transportation to do the CS. Also, as pointed out by another poster, mandatory CS (i.e. a CS worker) means it’s not voluntary CS (i.e. a CS giver) and I think much of what would get written down for CS hours, assuming it’d be performed outside of school hours, would be bogus.</p>

<p>OTOH, I think more schools, especially those populated by more lower income kids, should go out of their way to establish opportunity for students to perform CS by establishing relationships with charitable causes, providing transportation, and encouraging CS.</p>

<p>btw - Both of my kids performed hundreds of hours of CS, more than most at their school, and benefited the community (and themselves) greatly.</p>

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<p>I was talking about this with my friends earlier this week. While I think that community service is a great way to give back to the community, I completely think the idea of having mandatory hours for students is wrong. I just think that community service should be done by those who ACTUALLY want to do it, not those who want it to put on their college applications. All of the community service opportunities that I have done were related to my interest - Spanish. I think having mandatory hours would result in many unhappy students. It should be done as a service for those who want to help, not those who are forced to.</p>

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<p>I personally liked my school’s community service requirement. I come from a family that never heard of the term before finding it required in high school. It was a very light requirement though - 10 hours a year, 40 hours to graduate. I ended up with over 200 hours, just because I wanted to (I did a lot of tutoring and working at the library).</p>

<p>Even in college, we do a lot of community service. Last summer, I volunteered weekends at NASA Ames, giving tours of the visitor center and the like. There are programs that let college students mentor disadvantaged kids in the neighborhood around my college. One whole day of MIT’s freshman orientation is spent doing community service around the Boston/Cambridge area - I spent it cleaning up this run-down day care center place. It’s a great way to build community and meet people, both the ones you’re helping and the ones you’re working with.</p>

<p>I think giving back to the community is a value that students should learn as much as math, science, history, etc. I don’t recall exactly what my high school did for students who had to work to support their families, but I think it shouldn’t be too hard to get the requirement waived if the student can show a legitimate reason why they can’t do it - same with financial aid for college.</p>

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<p>bluebayou and mkm, I understand your concerns but forty hours spread over four years is not likely going to be a hardship to any student. Most kids here also work during high school so I don’t think that it is a problem in that regard. As I said, from all accounts the pros outweigh the cons. No school in Ontario, to my knowledge has a 50% dropout rate, and few kids graduate h/s not knowing how to read and write. I was simply relating the experience here, and as I’ve said in many other discussions on comparisons of the two systems, high school in most Canadian schools is different than it is in most American schools. As for admissions offices discounting community service, well, who knows that may be true but, the intent of it here was not to impress college admissions officers. Not everything that kids do in high school should be looked at through the filter of how much it will help them get into college.</p>

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<p>To me, saying that community service should be done by those who actually want to do it is like saying that doing regular exercise or taking academic courses should be done only by those teens and children who really want to do these things.</p>

<p>School provides the main way that society socializes our youth. Many young people would not know about the joys of giving back unless their schools required them to do community service.</p>

<p>When I taught college, I actually required my students to do 1-3 hours per semester of community service of their choice. Most really didn’t want to do it, but typically were surprised to learn how much fun it is to give back. Without such requirements, many would have continued with their lives without ever doing community service, and they would have missed out on that opportunity as would their present and future communities have missed out on their volunteering.</p>

<p>It’s also important to realize that the students who appear to be naturally doing community service on their own probably came from families that routinely did community service. The students learned at their parents knees about the joys and responsibilities of giving back , and whether or not they were naturally interested in it, their parents expected them to do service.</p>

<p>I have met very few people who on their own decided to do community service. The adults whom I know who are most active in community service either came from very service-minded families or participated in activities in high school or college in which service was required.</p>

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<p>My daughter is the same as you Nick - her CS is all in areas she cares about and was involved in long before she was even thinking of college apps. But for those that have never even though of doing any sort of volunteer work (such as her friend mentioned in my earlier post) it could actually be eye opening for them. My son was not involved in CS the way my daughter is but went on a mission trip (of the type were you help rebuild homes rather than preach) and it really was a important moment in his life to see how some people in this country have to live. But I have to admit it was something he chose to do and he would probably have not got the same from it if it had been forced on him.</p>