I’ve done medical-related things like HOSA and research, but I haven’t done any volunteering at hospitals or nursing homes. I’ve been dabbling in kind of everything throughout high school (music, sports, art, etc.), which is why I didn’t go all in with medical ECs.
Even if you had done TONS of hospital/homeless shelter/nursing home volunteering, your chances at PLME are low. So if you are confident that you really, really, really know enough about patient care and life as a physician then go ahead and apply. Everyone’s chances are low!
The question on the committee’s mind is not just going to be “is this person going to become a physician”-- it will also be “what evidence is there that this person knows enough about practicing medicine to stick with the plan”. So you need to provide them with that evidence.
Good luck.
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No worries about not going all in with medical EC’s. Most MD’s including those on the admissions committee see the practice of medicine as something most students beyond a very good academic threshhold can succeed doing. At least as much and possibly more so than regular college admissions, the MD’s and other admissions officers for PLME are going to imagine what you will be like as a doctor. Specific to medicine, this could look like:
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Is this person a future academic physician / physician scientist? Many physician scientists elect for MSTP / MD-PhD programs, so I would not be surprised if PLME had less of a scientific emphasis. If you are presenting yourself as a future physician scientist, your research, independence and academics will be in focus compared with others similarly presenting. Typical assessment factors would be journal prominence, author rank, publication number, abstracts, presentations and overall length and breadth of experience.
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What kind of doctor are you likely to be? Roughly speaking, is this someone who likely will aim toward primary care (peds, primary care, geriatrics) or is this person a future specialist (neurosurgeon, radiation oncologist, cosmetic dermatologist). I wouldn’t be surprised if Brown had a slightly primary care lean especially for PLME due to the shortage of primary care physicians and for other reasons.
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What kind of doctor will you be? In another sense, can the committee see you as collaborative, empathetic, sincerely caring for your fellow man? Medicine is a 1-on-1 profession with the doctor-patient interaction being the centerpiece. All the people doing admissions will know that happy doctors and happy patients are those who can project caring. It’s not that hard to do, but it’s not something many applicants will really drill down to demonstrate through their essays and activities.
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Is this person a future physician leader? Do you have interests in international medicine, infectious diseases, public health, bioinformatics or other fields that would signal that your career as a doctor would transcend the doctor-patient relationships and extend to communities.
Your application to the PLME should help the committee figure out the questions above. And helping them do that will improve your chances.
Back in May you said: “I want to apply as an English/creative writing major”. How certain are you at this point that you want to go into medicine? What is this interest based on?
It is possible in four years to complete the requirements for creative writing, and also complete the premed requirements. It is also perfectly reasonable to start off university undecided, explore multiple options (which might include creative writing and biology, for example) and then pick one option after you have taken a few classes in each field. It is very common for students to change their majors at some point. Some universities do not even allow a student to pick a major until the end of their freshman year of university.
It is also very reasonable, and for most of us a good idea, to be exploring multiple possible paths when in high school, and even into university. “I’ve been dabbling in kind of everything throughout high school” is a very good idea for the large majority of us.
However, my understanding is that PLME is essentially a BS/MD program. Acceptance is very competitive. I would expect that admissions would need to be very confident that this is the path that you want to take.
Of course you could take the more traditional path of completing your bachelor’s degree over 4 years while also completing the premed requirement, and then applying to medical school.
By the way, before applying to this thread I looked through a few of your previous threads. One thing that I did not see was a discussion of safeties or budget. Medical school is expensive, and in the US (or Canada) involves 8 years of university. If medical school is a possibility that you are seriously considering, then you should budget for a full 8 years of university. Regardless of your intended major or your intended career path, if you want to go to university (which seems very highly likely for anyone who is strong enough academically to be considering Brown) then you need to be applying to safeties. You can complete the premed requirements and be very well prepared for medical school at any one of a huge range of colleges and universities in the US, and premed classes will be tough at any one of a huge range of universities.
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How can you be sure (as evidenced by a desire to apply to PLME) you want to be a physician if you haven’t worked with patients?
The vast majority of med school students go thru the traditional route to get there rather than BS/MD or BS/DO program. You might consider using the time during undergrad to clarify what you really want to do.
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Why PLME?
If you haven’t volunteered in hospital, have you been in contact with people in distress in any sort of helping role?
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This is a tough question. How many pre-law students or even law students know what it’s like to work on a big litigation or through a corporate deal? How many prospective I bankers know the work environment of a junior analyst?
Shadowing opportunities for high school students can be tough to come by due to HIPAA and efficiency considerations. Hospital volunteering is in the majority of cases about as close to being a doctor as working at the courthouse coffee shop is to being a lawyer.
At least for the medical school admissions part of this context, it’d be doubtful that either of these types of activities would be much more significant than writing an essay about “a great doctor who inspired me that took care of my uncle”.
I’m not talking about shadowing or volunteering in a hospital. Many HS students can work as assistant CNAs, hospice aid, or junior EMTs…many successful BSMD/DO applicants have that type of experience.
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One idea here is that a person applying to PLME should be extraordinarily certain that a career in medicine is for them. Not wrong, but we’re also talking about 18 year olds and life decisions.
As to the activities you list, it’s a perfect spot for my least favorite phrase on CC. Candidates would “not be expected” to have done those activities as most successful candidates have not. Whatever that means. I wouldn’t question the authenticity of any candidate’s commitment to medicine based solely on the fact they had not.
How many start on the path but then pivot back to a regular four year program, deciding medicine isn’t for them during college ?
Is that common ?
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And that’s my point. At least at PLME if one decides med school isn’t for them, they are at a great school with many options. That’s not the case at many combined programs (even though all of those programs have single digit admit rates.)
A student who leaves one of these combined programs does take a spot away from someone else who may have been more committed to being a physician, which is why many admissions people want to see relevant patient facing/serving experience.
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More than 60% I think of students entering college with a premed intention never actually apply to medical school. @WayOutWestMom can give the statistic more precisely.
It’s very very common for premed intention folks to change their minds while in undergrad school.
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Sorry I meant in the formal 8 year auto med school programs.
As noted, these combined programs really are looking for folks who can demonstrate a commitment to completing the program.
You know…that experience could be working serving food in a skilled care facility, volunteering at a homeless shelter, etc. It doesn’t have to be a hospital job.
What about lifeguard training which involves first aid?
Lots of ways to demonstrate interest in pursuing a career in medicine.
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My S24 got into Brown, but not PLME. He had a perfect gpa, perfect act score, and as rigorous a schedule as it gets. He’s also a nationally certified EMT and had a lot of other strong extracurriculars with leadership. He was originally going to apply to many BS/MD’s but changed mind and only wanted to apply where he’d be happy to be if he ever decided to pivot.
It’s really hard to say who gets in, I’m so not an expert, but get impression it’s like college admissions in general and looking for a really broad and diverse group with varied interests and not necessarily just top stem students with medical related extracurriculars.
Now that he’s there he’s content not being in it, may feel differently come med school application season though! He loves their open curriculum and feels it will allow him the freedom to build a compelling narrative for med school.
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It’s really program dependent, and the information is not commonly available, but the numbers I’ve seen suggest that 70-80% of students at BS/MD/DO go on to complete med school. (Not all programs, of course, have that high of a success rate, but many do.)
Compare that to college freshmen who say they’re pre-med, where more then 83% fail to complete all the require pre-reqs.
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Thx. Very interesting. Does show those folks are committed.
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Can you clearly articulate why you want to be a physician?
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Can you explain why medical school is your goal instead of some other type of medical profession? (IOW, what about medicine is different than all the other types of healthcare-related careers out there?)
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Can you explain what a typical day in the life of a physician is like? (This the career you’re signing up for. You need to know what they do on a day-to-day basis. You don’t need to shadow for this, but you do need to talk with several physicians and do a formal, in depth, informational interview.)
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Do you have any customer-facing experience of any kind? (This is will help you understand something of the demands that seeing patients involve.)
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Do you have any face-to-face community service with disparaged or disadvantaged groups? (Medicine requires a service orientation. In fact a service orientation is one of the key competencies that med schools look for in applicants.)
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In medicine, is this a realistic expectation? The typical day of a surgery intern is miles from the typical day of a radiation-oncologist attending. A radiologist may have frequent work-from-home hours and overnight shifts with NightHawk while an ED doc may have weeks on and weeks completely off in shift work. Even the lifestyle of a pediatric orthopedist can vary widely from that of a hand surgeon, sports orthopedist or arthroplasty surgeon. Let alone a dermatologist or rheumatologist. And how many medical students come in wanting peds and walk out as dermatologists? Many. Many.
I think it would be difficult for any 17 year old to actually know the unique joys of a grateful and successful patient whose life you changed or the unique suffering that can be caused by the over-involved spouse or drug-seeking patient.
Why be a MD / DO and not a NP / PA or RN / LPN / MA? That also likely requires knowledge 17 year olds can’t possibly know - about roles that are constantly being tested and litigated among doctors and physician extenders, affiliated healthcare providers. Really, I think that question is a stretch.
I don’t want to step on wayoutwestmom’s toes, but do want to share my perspective as someone who has worked with many HS students, many of whom think they want to become a physician.
Those students who are competitive and successful BSMD/DO applicants do have experiences that allow them to answer these questions. AOs of these programs ask applicants these types of questions during the application review process/interview because they are looking for students who can articulate why they want to be a physician, do know what it feels like to serve patients and all that entails…from the feel good stuff to being kicked, bit, and spit on, and what the difference between an MD and NP is.
AOs want students in these programs to stay in the program, it’s a different mindset/goal than admitting traditional undergrads who say they are pre-med…it’s widely known and accepted that most of those students won’t be going to med school.
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