Should I Bother Applying To Top Schools?

College Search & Lists
1

I go to a small school with only about 500 kids. My school offers only 5 AP courses: psych, Calc AB, Lang, Lit, and Bio. There’s only 1 class of each, so it’s hard to even take those classes since schedules can be a mess. My school offers 2 dual enrollment programs. 1 is at a local community college and the other is at a vocational/technical college. I’ve taken vocational classes in EMT and digital design, but they’re irrelevant to 4 year universities. I’ll have my list of DE classes I should have done by the time I graduate, along with other nerd stats nobody cares about below.

My issue is that my school is brand new and doesn’t offer a lot of academic opportunities, and I also don’t have a lot of financial opportunities since my family is close to dirt poor. I know I can easily get into the top public university in my state- UF- due to the fact that their admission process compares you to the other kids in your school. This benefits me a lot since I’m #1 class rank out of 125 kids in my grade. Anyways, my dream schools are out of state, and as much as I’d love to go to a big-brand-name college, I feel like I’m not at all competitive enough. I’m a first generation immigrant, freshly imported from Asia, and I’m the first person in my family to ever go to college. So, what comes with uneducated parents? Nothing. That’s the problem. We have no money. My only other option is to apply to top private colleges with great financial aid, and again, I feel like I have no business in applying there to begin with.

SAT: 1350. 750 on math and 600 in reading/writing. I “don’t know how to grammar,” so that’s why my scores are bad. Forgive me, I’m freshly imported from Asia.
I’ll probably take subject tests in math and Chem in the fall
ACT: no results yet. Probably worst than the SAT since only 1/4 of the test was math, and I can only speak numbers.

4.0 unweighted GPA
4.7 weighted GPA, but since I took vocational classes weighted the same as AP, this is going to be recalculated by universities.

AP classes
Calc AB -5
AP Econ, both macro and micro (online) - no results yet

DE
English comp 1 & 2
Speech
Statistics
Art History
Chem 1&2
Calc 2&3
Diff EQ
Physics with Calc 1
US Gov
International Relations
Eastern Philosophy

Extra curriculars
800 volunteer hours at various places. Mainly did this to explore career options, and also because it’s fun.
Volunteered at a:
Botanical Garden
Hospital
Habitat for humanity
Humane society
Middle school to teach children how to math
Fabrication laboratory
Overpriced nerd camps for nerdy children
Relay for life
Salvation Army
Food drive

Leadership roles
I’m the NHS president for both junior and senior year
Class Vice President for freshman and sophomore year

Nerd Competitions
Science Olympiad - didn’t get anywhere since my school has 8 members in it
Moody’s Mega Math Challenge - didn’t finish it
Skills USA for digital design - got nowhere
Energy whiz - you know the pattern
Local County Math comp - 2nd place for the last 3 years. I kept losing to another kid, freshly imported from India

Random ECs
Self taught oboe + English horn. I play at a youth philharmonic group. I hate music, but I have Asian parents so…
Track and cross country for freshman and sophomore year. Horrible athlete. I did it for fun until it wasn’t fun anymore
Helping build a biodiesel reactor at the fabrication lab I volunteer in

Phew! That was kinda long. I think I’ll major in material science engineering, but that’s subject to change. So should I go to UF, have all my DE credits transfer and only be about $20,000 in debt? Or, should I pursue my dream and go out-of-state and go $250,000 in debt? Or, should I apply to top-private schools and get insanely depressed when I get denied to each one?

Yes, I know, I know, there’s always scholarships that can bring cost down, but let’s assume I won’t get any since we prepare for the worst here.

2

Why do you think you will be rejected? Work on your SAT/ACT over the summer. Apply for questbridge or a similar program for low income kids, and apply to schools with good financial aid - at most you will pay close to zero. A kid who takes shop and AP classes simultaneously is pretty rare (I did too back in the day). Add the 1st gen and low income and you have a lot of pluses for a college adcom.

$250K in debt is not worth it - ever. And UF is an excellent uni so anything better is just icing on the cake. If you can come out with an engineering degree with only $20K of debt you could probably clear it in 1-2 years. $250K would take a decade or more.

3

“Or, should I apply to top private schools and get insanely depressed when I get denied to each one?”

First of all, if that’s literally what’s keeping you from applying, you have a personal issue that needs to get worked out with your sense of self. No one on this board can tell you yes or no to that question.

I hope you also understand that just because it’s not an ivy league doesn’t mean it will give you any financial aid. There are plenty of great private schools out there with great financial aid that aren’t super selective. I’m talking about places like rochester and lehigh. My advice is to do some research. Go on US News rankings (don’t pay attention to rankings tho they’re bs sometimes) and look at the financial aid sections of each school. You’re not going to go into 250k in debt.

You also mentioned being freshly immigrated. I don’t think you’re going to be counted as an international student (someone can confirm me in that case) given that you’ve been in a US high school for several years. That means you are eligible for financial aid consideration and can get decent money at the right schools. It’s important to do your research though.

“I don’t know how to grammar” “freshly imported from Asia” - this is not an explanation for bad test scores. It’s an excuse. I used to have the same attitude, and it’s something that you literally just need to get over. You’re not incapable. You just don’t want to work on your grammar skills and raise that score, but I don’t even know you and I still believe in you. In fact, one of my good friends immigrated to the US from China I think for his sophomore year. He ended up getting a perfect score on the ACT. His first language was definitely not English. It’s doable and takes work. It may not come easy to you, but that’s the beauty of a challenge, isn’t it?

“I can only speak in numbers” - well hun, that’s a poor attitude to have. You’re like 17. You’re not done growing or learning, so restricting your skill set so early is just naive in itself.

What I’m getting from all of this is that you’re afraid of being wrong or not good at something and having that conclusion be validated and I totally understand if you do. But if you actually want to be successful in this college admissions process, you have to confront these problems, work on them, and grow from them. Don’t resign yourself to hopelessness. There’s solutions to these problems, and I think it’s just important to look for those solutions before giving up.

Good luck kiddo

4

It doesn’t hurt to apply anywhere you may think you’d want to go to. Your reading score on SAT is low for top top schools, but many of them look at your application holistically so that one thing can’t ruin you.

As far as money goes, I went to info sessions for schools like Harvard that claimed if your parents made less than $165,000, you wouldn’t be expected to pay tuition. That’s not the case for all schools, but there are definitely opportunities to make college cheaper if money is an issue.

5

I can’t answer if you should apply to top schools but you should apply to colleges/universities. My suggestion is to go where you will have the best financial opportunity. In short, go where will cost you the least. This will put you further ahead in your future than concerning yourself with what “name brand” school you go to. Remember, this is just your undergraduate degree. In this country, undergrad has really become the next step from high school. It is no longer the ticket to future success that it once was. Although your family is “dirt poor” that could actually land you in a better position to finance college because it is very possible that you could end up going for free.

Although your school is very small, I suggest you connect with your guidance counselor and try to get him/her to really help you and walk you through the entire college search process. If your counselor is too busy to do it, then find someone else. You need a mentor to help you. Maybe a teacher? A neighbor? An employer? Find someone in your life who understands the college process and the system who can help you and advise you. Good luck…keep working hard.

6

1350 on the SAT can still get full tuition at a few schools. Not that many, though.

A friend’s wife is an engineer and an exec, and did undergrad at a flagship then graduate school at the prestigious engineering school across the river from Boston. I’ve seen 3-4 people approach them about how to get Snowflake into MIT as an undergrad.

Their answer is always the same: Don’t waste your time. Do your undergrad at a respectable U, work really really hard and absorb as little debt as possible, then apply to grad school at the Magnificent Technical Institute (or wherever).

I feel this is excellent advice.

7

Why do you think that you belong at “top” schools? What is wrong with the hundreds of fine schools in the US where most people go to college and go on to successful and rewarding careers? Please do your own research on whether these schools really matter for most kids. Your “insanely depressed” comment is a red flag that you know very little about the realities of college and are setting yourself up for unhappiness for no real reason. Best wishes.

8

Your app is viewed in context with what your school offers. You are not going to be disadvantaged because your new school only offers five APs. If there is only one section offered a day, scheduling conflicts are going to happen.

Try the ACT, it’s a more straightforward test, and as a non-native English speaker, it might work better for you.

9

Once you start researching schools, you’re going to run into this “problem”, UF’s MSE program is typically ranked among the top ten graduate and undergraduate materials science and engineering programs in the nation. It’s an exceptional program. You’ll only find about a dozen other programs it’s equal or better. You’ll also find that with a Bright Futures scholarship (which likely will be paying full tuition +$300 a semester for books), UF will be affordable. UF even offers good need-based aid and programs for first generation students. UF will be extremely competitive based on cost.

http://fos.ufsa.ufl.edu/
http://firstgeneration.ufsa.ufl.edu/

That’s a hard combination to beat.

Of those schools with excellent MSE programs, many will be way too expensive, especially compared to in-state at UF. Those that offer excellent merit, are also lotto schools (MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech), others offer little to no aid to OOS students (UC-Berkeley, UC-SB), or if they do, it’s to a very limited number of students (GT and it’s Stamps scholarships).

By all means do your research. Create a list of schools with comparable MSE programs (say 20?). Figure out which ones could be affordable(research scholarships, including external scholarships) and apply. While acceptance to UF is likely, it’s holistic admission process can seem random at times. Make sure you have some safeties and other options.

Compared to other other engineering programs, only a limited number of schools have excellent MSE programs. Currently in the US, we have over 600,000 undergraduates enrolled in engineering programs, but only about 7,000 in Metallurgical and Materials engineering. Your choice of major does limited the number of schools that you would consider.

If you’re open to a major other than MSE, then many other schools could be considered, and some of them could be competitive (based on price) with UF.

Otherwise, MSE is an excellent major. Don’t let anything I’ve written turn you off to it. :slight_smile:

EDIT: To your original question. Yes, you should apply to several top schools. Be selective, do your research, and if UF is your best choice, go after it aggressively (apply for the scholarships, work on that admissions essay, etc.).

Good Luck!

10

Thus is the problem with the college search these days. Students and parents care more about a brand label rather than how the institution will match their particular needs. For what you want to do, Florida IS a top school. The fact that it’ll be cheap is a huge bonus.

11

I know a kid who is born in America, with Chinese parents. Nevertheless, he is not good in English and did not do well in the standard tests. He went to a third tier college that is not listed anywhere including US News etc. The important thing is that he did so well in college and got a job with Google immediately upon graduation.

Going to TOP college may be a triump to a high school kid, but live is a marathon, college is what you can make of, ranking and label are not the most important.

12
  1. No degree is worth 250,000 in debt. If you don't get scholarships or financial aid, don't go. Run Net Price Calculators before applying so you don't waste your time.
  2. There are a range of schools between the tippy tops that reject everybody and the ones at the bottom who reject nobody. Take some time to learn about them and see if there are any affordable matches.
13

“No degree is worth 250,000 in debt.”

You can’t borrow that much for undergrad anyway even if you wanted to.

“There are a range of schools between the tippy tops that reject everybody and the ones at the bottom who reject nobody.”

Like UF, for instance.

14

I don’t know the answer to your question, but I want to say that you write very well for someone new to this country. You’re also very funny, and I laughed out loud a couple of times. I have the feeling you can write a great essay. Your personality, take on life and humor really come across.Univ of Fl has a great rep, so if you can go there it wouldn’t be a bad thing at all. If you want to go out of state and get a full ride look into Univ of Alabama, for example. Best of luck!

15

Honestly, as someone who was rejected from both Dartmouth and West Point this year, you should go for it. I don’t regret applying to ivy leagues at all. I did an interview with Dartmouth and was very close to being accepted, but just didn’t make the cut. Who knows, maybe you’ll be one of the lucky ones!

I wrote an article about my rejections if you want to take a look at it.
https://adventureunknownblog.com/2017/07/13/my-purpose/

16

$250,000 of debt is a bad idea, and you would not be able to borrow anywhere near that much for undergraduate anyway. But some of the most selective private schools offer good financial aid if your parents really are “dirt poor”. You can check their net price calculators on their web sites. Of course, some may not offer materials engineering, and they are unlikely admits for anyone. So if University of Florida is affordable, it is certainly a good choice.