Should I ED to Brown or Cornell CALS?

Chance Me / Match Me
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My chances for either school are already low to due to my gpa, but I would like to figure out every way to maximize my odds. I understand that Brown and Cornell are completely different environments, but I would genuinely be equally happy at either.

I know some say it isn’t a good idea to strategically apply ED somewhere, but I genuinely would attend either school. I have completed the net price calculator for both schools and feel comfortable with either offer.

What I’m asking is if my profile would fit one school better rather than the other, so l understand which school I should use my ED for, in hopes of getting my odds up to the highest I can.

My profile:

Demographics

  • US Domestic
  • North Carolina
  • Public High School (Mid-High Competition)
  • Other special factors: Deceased Parent

Intended Major(s): Biological Science with a minor in CS, or just a major in Computational Biology (Both pre-med)

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.83

    Context: All non A’s from freshman year. I will be providing information regarding my freshman year grades in the additional information section of the common app (Scoliosis, taking care of sibling who had trouble regulation their emotions)

  • Weighted HS GPA: 4.45 (+.5 for honors, + 1 for AP)

  • Class Rank: N/A

  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1580 SAT

List your HS coursework

Total of 13 AP’s by graduation, total of 8 AP’s by end of junior year

  • English: English 1 Honors, Creative Writing Honors, Total of 4 classes of Newspaper (2 freshman, 2 sophomore), English 2 Honors, AP Lit, AP Lang
  • Math: NC Math 1 Honors, NC Math 2 and NC Math 3 Honors (Both sophomore year), AP Pre-Calculus, AP Calculus AB, AP Calculus BC, AP Statistics, AP Physics 1
  • Science: Earth and Environmental Science Honors, Biology Honors and Chemistry Honors (Both sophomore year), AP Biology, AP Chemistry
  • History and social studies: AP World History, AP Gov, APush, Economics and Personal Finance Honors (Required Class)
  • Language other than English: Spanish 1 and 2 Honors (Both Junior Year), Spanish 3 and 4 Honors (Both Senior Year)
  • Other academic courses: AP Psychology

Awards

  • US Biology Olympiad Semi-Finalist
  • US Medicine and Disease Olympiad Gold
  • Won 2 Hackathons
  • 2 Best of SNO Awards (School Newspaper Articles)

Extracurriculars

1. Published Science Research:

- Conducted science research with a mentor at a university on how adolescents between 9 and 17 often feel relief regarding hardships if there is reasoning behind it, regardless if the reasoning is justified. Got my research published and led me to creating my non-profit (Beyond the Storm)

2. Founder of Beyond the Storm:

- Founded a non-profit website that educates adolescents who have lost a parent by disease on the biology of the illness. Published research done by me (EC #1) provides a backbone to why I started this and why it’s important.

3. Science Research on the Impact of Various Rock Sub-Genres to the Brain:

- Conducted at a university with a mentor (Unpublished) Found that rock music provides an unusual amount of motivational dopamine, playing an excellent source of stimulus for one’s who have goals.

4. Co-Founder/President of My Schools Coding Club:

- Every semester our club built a project based on the votes of all students and staff within school (Projects we built include a School Lunch Meal predictor, an interactive Al chatbot that helps students learn to enjoy school, etc Also every semester we held a fundraiser downtown, raising over 10K in total.

5. Vice-President of Science Honors Society:

- Spent many hours after school tutoring biology and chemistry students for free via the club. Created long, immensely detailed slideshows for each twice-monthly meeting that contained interviews of local biologists.

6. Shadowed Two Doctors:

- Shadowed the famous Dr. Hey of the HeyClinic, an orthopedic spine surgeon. Also shadowed a cardiologist and worked with her on a small awareness project regarding hereditary heart disease.

7. Cashier and Stocker at Local Farmers Market:

- Assisting customers with various needs, like hosting check out counters, directing customers towards products, and more.

8. Dishwasher at Senior Living Community:

- Cleaned, set tables, and did other various chores around my local senior living community. Also spent many hours after my shifts hanging out with residents. (played chess, checkers, cards, etc)

9. Scenic Biking, Hiking, and Skateboarding:

- Spent weekends doing all for a sense of peace. Typically I would bike and hike in the mountains, and skateboard in more urban settings. (Downtown) | also started a social media account with over 11K followers where I would post a beautiful view alongside an inspirational quote. Also headed a campaign that led to a renovation of my city’s only skatepark.

10. Electric Guitar Jam-Time:

- Hours at a time over the weekend shredding on my Electric Guitar. Very therapeutic for me. Started a Social Media account where I would play various songs while wearing a Yoda mask. (Over 20k followers)

Schools

Brown and Cornell CALS (Which should I ED too based of my profile)

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I can’t speak to Brown but I don’t see your profile being a match for CALS. CAS maybe, but out of state students applying to the College of Ag and Life Science need to have a strong interest in the Ag part of CALS. Land-Grant Mission | CALS

Cornell also has a reputation for being very hard for pre-meds. The core science and math course can be extremely competitive.

Also note that Cornell is making a concerted effort to shirk the ED cohort so I don’t expect there to be much of an ED bump for non hooked students.

I would suggest taking some time and reading the mission, vision, and value statements of each school on your list, along with the 4 year plan of study for your intended major. Take time to read the student newspapers, research the clubs that you may want to explore, and find a school that is a good fit for your strengths and interests.

If you aren’t sure about ED, don’t feel pressured to send a binding application anywhere.

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Brown says you won’t get in ED if you wouldn’t RD.

“Please do not assume that your admission chances are improved by applying under the Early Decision plan. The Board of Admission makes the same decisions under Early Decision that it would under the Regular Decision plan.”

So maybe keep your options open until you can visit each - assuming you haven’t.

I wouldn’t necessarily explain your grades away. If you got and, the world doesn’t end. I assume you still have the same health issue. You don’t want to be seen as excuse making.

You are a wonderful candidate and someone will be lucky to have you.

I don’t know your budget but being from NC, I hope you look at Duke as well. And JHU. And Case Western as more a target - assuming computational bio which might help you more if you decide against med school.

I wouldn’t ED unless you visit and I doubt it will help. I imagine you’d get in or not get in RD, similarly to ED.

Good luck.

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Was coming here to say the same thing.

OP, why CALS at Cornell rather than CAS? Perhaps read the essay prompts for both and see which one fits you better.

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I thought CALS was more for science people and those who appreciate nature. Though if I would genuinely be a better fit for CAS, then there’s nothing wrong with that to me.

I was wondering you could use your best expertise to chance me for Cornell CAS and Brown? I know you could never be certain because we never know what goes one in the admissions office, but based of my profile do you think I would have like a genuine chance at either school? (Please LMK separate odds for Cornell and Brown if you can)

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Do you think I would have a genuine chance for Brown RD? Same question for Cornell RD?

I understand no one could ever be certain, though if you could use your knowledge to conclude if you think I would have a genuine chance at either.

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If you are interested in attending either Brown or Cornell for four years to complete your bachelor’s degree, then you should apply to both. If neither one is truly your number #1 choice, meaning you’re willing to withdraw all other applications to enroll, then apply RD to both. No one can guarantee you an offer of admission.

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@Jason_99 these two colleges have very low acceptance rates. Each year, they are trying to build a class and really, we have no idea how you would fare in terms of what the colleges view they need in their class.

Fact is…if you get accepted, or don’t get accepted, you will never know why. And neither do we!

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Brown University’s Program in Liberal Medical Education (PMLE) is another option to consider if you are completely certain about pursuing a career in medicine. Extremely competitive (≈2% admit rate vs. 5% overall).

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You could also look at Cornell Human Ecology for the Human Biology, Health and Society major.

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At Cornell, CAS has more pre-meds than CALS. And CALS is slated to those who not only appreciate nature, but want to study it. Plant and animal sciences, agricultural and environmental sciences and that sort of thing. Is that your area of interest? You did mention CS, which is offered in CAS as well as the School of Engineering.

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Human Ecology also gives preference to NY state residents and doesn’t offer CS nor computational biology. For this student, it’s my opinion Arts and Sciences is the best match for their interests and profile.

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I think you should apply at whatever school you feel is the best for you, not which is best for admissions. If you’ve not been to both (maybe you have), I’m not sure you can with 100% certainty claim either is the right school. They may be as may many others not Ivy or they may not be.

I’m not an adcom but…

Brown admitted 5.8%.

Cornell is much higher but 8% ish and if we believe hotel and ILR are higher, then the other colleges are lower.

If you believe the CDS, the test score isn’t of huge importance at Cornell but is at Brown.

I don’t think ED will matter - and like everyone, I think your odds are low, not because of your GPA, but because they are Brown and Cornell.

So take your shot - but like all, you need other schools to ensure they hit your budget (whatever it is) and that you are 100% assured to be admitted. That is actually your most important decision (to pick that school), not whether to ED to Cornell or Brown which is frankly an easy decision.

Brown is obviously smaller and more urban whereas Cornell has cute Ithaca and is larger.

ED is a choice but not necessarily a required one. Some look at how many kids that ED’d filled the class but don’t forget, that includes athletes and other invited guests.

Good luck whatever you decide.

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Here is my suggestion. Sit down and make a list of the pros for each of these colleges. And make a list of cons. Since you like both schools…it’s time to look for reasons NOT to apply to one of them. So…look at your lists of cons. Which ones can you live with and which ones would you prefer not to deal with.

Or…as suggested above, apply RD to both.

Re: PLME at Brown…you are already concerned that your stats are not as good as you think they need to be and hope ED advantage will help. I can’t see how considering an even more competitive option is in your better interest. And the vast majority of doctors go the traditional route of undergrad school…then applying to medical school. Plus…you might change your mind entirely along the way.

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My first impression reading through this thread is that you should not apply ED at all. Instead apply EA (for schools that have it) or RD.

The vast majority of students who start university thinking “premed” end up doing something else. Some cannot maintain medical-school-worthy GPA in the tough premed classes. However, quite a few students just find something else that they want to do instead. Biomedical research might be one example (and might lead to a PhD rather than an MD). Reading your post, writing software that helps doctors and medical researchers comes to mind as another possibility. Being some other sort of software engineer is another possibility. However, there is a huge range of other possibilities, and you will learn more about multiple of them when you get some way into your university studies.

Regardless, you do have enough experience in medical situations for you and us to take your interest in premed seriously.

Your uptrend in high school is also likely to help you, regardless of what path you end up deciding to take. Of course by the time that you are applying to medical schools, or any other graduate program, whatever you did in your freshman year of high school will not matter at all. It probably does not matter all that much even now when applying to undergraduate universities.

Students in very good MD programs come from a huge range of undergraduate schools. The same could be said about quite a few other types of graduate programs. I would be quite surprised if whether you attend Cornell, or Brown, or UNC, or any one of at least 100 other universities (and probably more like 200 or 300 other universities) is going to make any significant difference in terms of your chances of ever going to medical school. I would expect Cornell and Brown to get a higher percentage of their undergraduate students into MD programs, but a lot of this, and maybe all of this, comes from the excellent quality of the students who start off as freshmen at these highly selective universities.

As long as medical school is a realistic possibility make sure that you are budgeting for a full 8 years of university.

I wondered about this also. When I think of the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences at Cornell I think of their excellent DVM program, and also think of some agricultural work such as varieties of apples, grapes, and berries that were developed there.

I doubt that your chances are all that far off from their overall acceptance rates, but might be a bit lower. Your GPA is a bit low, but this appears to be mostly due to freshman year of high school which will be less important than more recent years. Your SAT is excellent. These schools acceptance rates include recruited athletes which you are not. The large majority of applicants to these schools are very strong candidates and the competition is tough (both to get in, and once you are there).

To me the best thing that you can do to improve your chances of acceptance to any highly ranked and famous university is to find out as much as you can about the schools, think about what sorts of schools would be the best fit for you, and apply to schools that will be a good fit for you. These schools are looking for students who will be a good fit, and they get it right quite often. However, figuring out what counts as a good fit is not easy.

Two things are more important:

One is finding the right safeties to apply to. I am hoping that UNC or NC State would count in this regard, but I am not actually sure whether either would be a safety or how you would feel about going there. If you end up at either school, you are going to find a lot of very strong professors and very strong students in both your premed classes and your computer science classes (and in math classes also, noting that you will need some math to really do well with CS).

The other thing that is more important is budgeting for a full 8 years of university.

There might be one other thing that is worth saying: Starting with lower grades freshman year of high school, you have ended up with great overall GPA, a superb SAT score, and a very interesting list of activities. You have accomplished a lot. Wherever you go to university, whether you go to Brown or Cornell or UNC or NC State or somewhere else, the premed classes are going to be tough, and will be full of very strong students. The effort that you put in throughout high school is going to help you when you get into these tough university classes. Congratulations on this great effort and the resulting excellent results, and keep in mind that this will help you going forward regardless of which university you end up attending for your bachelor’s degree. The main point of all this work is NOT what university you attend, but rather is being well prepared when you do get to university.

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Both Brown and Cornell have acceptance rates under 10% so both should be considered reaches. IMO nobody can reasonably chance you for these or any other hyper-competitive colleges. In a holistic review much will depend on things that cannot or should not be shared on a public forum such as essays, LORs, etc.

My advice is to give the Cornell and Brown applications your all and see what happens. Work hard to craft personal and meaningful essays. Apply ED to the school you most want to attend (if finances appear to work) or apply RD to both. And be sure to craft an application list that includes reach, match, and safety schools that appear affordable and that you would be excited to attend.

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If COA (cost-of-attendance) is not a factor, then consider applying early to UC-San Diego, UCLA, and UC-Berkeley as the UC system does not include an applicant’s freshman year grades when recalculating applicants’ GPAs. (Same for Canadian universities.)

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OP, id you’re planning on being premed, I would recommend applying to CHE rather than CALS.

Also, if you want to ED strategically to maximize your odds of getting into at least one of Brown or Cornell, ED to CHE at Cornell.

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Emory also does this, and there are some great premedical programs in Canada (Mac healthsci, Queens healthsci, Mac lifesci). I would also look at UC Riverside if you want a UC (and assuming money isn’t an issue for undergrad or med school), as they have an EAP with UCR med school and reserve 24 seats exclusively for UCR students who therefore only need to compete against other UCR students rather than the whole applicant pool.

If finances are an issue, look at NC A&T - you should be competitive for merit scholarships there and they have an early assurance program with ECU Brody school of medicine.

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