So I’m torn between EDing to Cornell or Rice for B.Arch. Imostly want insight on which school has a better environment/which one would be smarter to use my ED on. I’m a relatively strong student (97.1/100 UW GPA, 1570 SAT, lots of arch/art related extracurriculars, a solid portfolio).
Chances-wise, Cornell is the smarter option because:
I’m from NY
My school is a Cornell feeder
I did Cornell’s Architecture Summer Program (I did it as a rising junior though, so my grade was an A- which wasn’t amazing)
I do want to go to Cornell because I want to stay close to home and because it’s consistently ranked at #1. However, I do feel like the environment is kind of…depressing? I like cold weather/snow but everyone says it’s a miserable place to be. Also, when I visited Cornell, some of B.Arch students looked really depressed and were really rude to me. However, I did talk to some other students who were very kind and said that they enjoyed Cornell.
I’m visiting Rice in late September, but from what I’ve seen, Rice seems like an overall happier environment? Not just the weather, the community’s values of service and helping others really speaks to me and I don’t think Cornell emphasizes such values as much. Also, the preceptorship opportunities seem valuable.
Help! I’m really torn between these two schools. I’d really appreciate any insight from students that go to Cornell/Rice! Thanks!
Seems like you have not researched the undergraduate study of architecture adequately; if you did, then you would be focusing on factors other than “happiness”, “friendliness”, and weather. While those are important considerations, the study of architecture is a pre-professional degree which indicates that the students have a particular career or career focus in mind. Which program will better accommodate your interests ?
Do you want to earn a BA, a BS, or a BArch degree ? Do you know the difference ? Should you care ?
Research degree requirements and options for each school. Examine the course offerings. Would you benefit from a larger or smaller department of architecture ?
Before you ED anywhere, one thing to do is to make sure that both schools are likely to be affordable. Have you run the NPCs on both schools and were the results okay to you and your parents? Alternately, would you and your parents be fine being full pay at either school?
Otherwise I generally am leery of applying ED anywhere unless you have a clear first choice.
I have visited Cornell multiple times in the winter. It can be quite cold, and can get a lot of snow. Personally I am fine with both of these. That does not say whether or not you are fine with these. To me Cornell is in a beautiful location. I also sort of like the architecture there. It is academically challenging, but so is Rice.
Any difference between the architecture programs at these two excellent universities is something that I cannot comment on. However, you hopefully have spent some time figuring this out.
I think that you will find some rude students and some kind students pretty nearly anywhere. I can still recall missing one lecture at an academically challenging university and asking a fellow student what the homework assignment was. His response was that he wouldn’t tell me because he wanted to get a better grade than me on the midterm and final exams. This was a bit of a shock to me, but is something that could happen at a wide range of academically challenging universities (that tend to draw in competitive students). Fortunately two other students who were also in the same class overheard this conversation and told me what the homework assignment was (this was way back when I was in university, before recordings of classes were available on-line).
And some students will be stressed at any academically challenging university, and possibly at nearly any university at all. If you want to attend a university that is highly ranked and that is known for academic rigor, then you need to be prepared to work hard and keep ahead. It will be a challenge. When I was an undergraduate student at some times I liked this and at some times I found it to be a bit much. By the time that I was a graduate student I was ready for it, wanted the challenge, and I loved it. I still fondly remember spending six hours one Saturday (roughly from 11am to 5pm) solving one problem out of five on a problem set, in one class out of five that I was taking at the time. I was thrilled to be able to solve the problem (which was a very tough one even on the scale of “graduate level classes at Stanford”). If after spending six hours on a Saturday you are thrilled to have succeeded in solving a tough problem, then Cornell or Rice might be the right university for you.
You do not need to ED anywhere. I would only apply ED if you have a clear first choice, and if you have very good reason to believe that the university will be affordable for you.
Both Rice and Cornell are great choices for some academically very strong students who want to work very hard for four years and learn an enormous amount.
Both Rice and Cornell have great B.Arch programs. I wouldn’t pay a whole lot of attention as to who is ranked #whatever on whatever ranking list. Both are tier 1 programs.
Mostly what you’re going to find here are parents and unless we have a rare parent that has children that went to both schools, not sure how much information anyone can give about compare/contrast the “on campus feel”. Once you’ve visited Rice you’ll have a better feel compare/contrast.
Admission to either program is likely to come down to the quality of your portfolio which you say is solid but I might suggest could need to be exceptional.
Relating to any perceived “rudeness” - what was the time of the year you were visiting and is it possible the Arch kids were in the middle of, of getting ready for, the crit process? The time commitment to these programs is pretty extraordinary.
No, the Rice BArch is a 6 year program, with a 4 year BA followed by a 5th year preceptorship and the BArch after year 6. A MArch would be another year.
When I was looking at Architecture programs myself, the Rice 6 year BArch didn’t appeal to me as much as getting a MArch in the same time frame. The preceptorship may be appealing to some though.
Interesting! Learned something new… and completely agree that all else equal its a much less attractive program when in some cases a student could get an March in the same time (maybe a semester more) at many schools.
Yes, the Rice program includes an extra year of preceptorship - it’s somewhat like co-op programs that take an extra year. “Preceptees intern for a minimum 9-month period, participate in a variety of roles that provide a better understanding of the scope of professional practice, and are paid competitive wages.”
One of my d’s friends did her 5th year in Paris, supported by Rice’s Paris Center. Pretty great opportunity!
OP, there’s no wrong choice here; hopefully your preference will become clearer after your visit to Rice in a few weeks!
On the purely-strategic front… Rice is adding ED2 this year… so if you decide to ED1 to Cornell, you could still queue up an ED2 application to Rice.
How does the OP’s having narrowed down to two BArch programs indicate that they haven’t done the research and decided that a BArch is what they want? They did the summer architecture program at Cornell over a year ago, so clearly they’ve been investigating the field for a while. My impression is that they already know the difference between a BArch and a BA/BS, have identified the most-desired programs, and are now getting to the comparison of the more lifestyle-related factors. On what do you base the conclusion that OP has not researched adequately?
Yes, I understand the difference between BS, BA, and BArch. I’m aiming to apply to the BArch program for both schools because, as you said, it’s the professional program. I work at an architecture firm with people who have done B.Arch and highly reccommended it + explained the process to me. I am just doing research on lifestyle-related aspects of each school to ensure I have a positive experience and my mental health is worsened by the stress expected of an architecture education.
This is very important so good for you for recognizing that it is a stressful major. If you have any issues at all with seasonal affective disorder, Cornell might not be the place for you.
My husband taught at Cornell for a number of years, and I visited him may times while attending my law school in another state. I’ve also visited Rice with my S19. Leaving aside any architecture-specific issues, they are quite different schools. Cornell is beautiful and it is an excellent university, but it is my sense it is a relatively stressful school - at least when my husband was teaching there, many students seemed to have a bit of a “I didn’t get into Harvard but I am still in an Ivy” complex - and the weather is also tough in the winter. Our visit to Rice was my first time to visit Houston, and although my law firm colleagues in Houston had assured me it is a very diverse and interesting city, I was still taken by surprise. Rice is in a particularly diverse area, right in the city but quite calm, with many interesting restaurants, museums, etc. The school itself also seemed laid-back relative to Cornell and other schools we’d visited in the Northeast, and I liked the residential college system. My son ultimately did not apply as he really wanted a smaller school, but I thought it was a gem and you should definitely visit before making your decision and see how you feel.
You’ll have a lot more information to make this decision after the Rice visit, so it’s hard imo to make a recommendation on what college you should choose. If you think you’re ok with either Rice or Cornell, then maybe 5 years vs. 6 years and higher ranking could sway the decision to Cornell.
Just chiming in about the general friendliness of Rice – my daughter is a junior, and we have been very, very pleased with her experience. The students are friendly and caring and not competitive – the university touts its “culture of care” – and we’ve found that to be accurate. The school definitely lives up to its friendly nerd vibe.
Houston is a liberal pocket in a conservative state, and Rice is fairly liberal also – but it seems welcoming for all kinds of students. Mine is an introvert and has loved the residential college system. The student body is diverse and very heavily Asian. My daughter’s good friend who is an archi major is from Brazil.
Because the B. Arch program is top tier, the workload is no joke. (I think that’s true of B. Arch programs in general, though.) My daughter and her friend were in Italian classes together, and they studied abroad in Rome last summer. But after that, her friend didn’t have time to continue with Italian – the archi workload was just too intense.
Also, you mention that you’re from NY and don’t mind cold weather. Well, just know that Houston is horribly, disgustingly hot, lol. It wasn’t a huge deal for my daughter because we’re from Atlanta, but if you’re not used to hot weather, it can be quite an adjustment. But every dorm and building have good a/c. It also rains frequently – huge storms that flood the campus – so rain boots and umbrellas are a must.
I say none of this to dissuade you – just giving you a heads up. If you’re looking for a welcoming and friendly environment, I don’t think you can go wrong with Rice.
As a fellow B.Arch, I would recommend looking further into the culture of the program/school vs. rankings and climate. You may have to speak with graduates from each program. As a B.Arch, you will be spending most of your undergraduate life in the studio and you do not want that to be a high-stress, ultra-competitive environment. Plus, you will have a 5th year to complete when all your other non-Arch friends from freshman year will have graduated. The heavy technical curriculum of B.Arch will leave little room for foundational studies (liberal arts, social sciences) or other EC activities, which are additional reasons for attending college in the first place. One advantage of the M.Arch path (w/ a BA or BS in Arch.) is a more well-rounded and less stressful undergraduate experience. You can work for a couple of years and continue to a top-tier M.Arch school like the Harvard GSD or Yale, study with the most famous architects in the world, with a more mature outlook on the profession.
Cornell AAP alum here but way back decades ago. Cornell’s reputation is really high there. I am an interviewer from my country/state. It’s not easy to get in but given you have joined their summer program, you do have an edge. Don’t worry about the A-. It’s not bad at all. I would ED if I were you over Rice.
I’m guessing you will have a much better idea on which you prefer after visiting Rice. ED to your number one choice, they both are great schools with great programs. The schools are in very different locations in terms of weather. Also, Cornell has I think around 16k undergrads and Rice has 4,500, which will make for a different feeling/vibe. In the end, if you decide to ED1 to Cornell and get denied or deferred, Rice added an ED2 this year so you could ED1 to Cornell and still ED2 to Rice.