I am a Latino Senior U.S student and I was wondering if you could chance me at Middlebury and Columbia. I know I would be very happy at Middlebury, but I think I would prefer Columbia. The schools are very different but I love skiing outdoors and close-knit community. I also love the city and getting the best possible education I can.
WGPA: 4.63
GPA: 3.9
11APs
Test Scores
4 on AP Chem
4 on AP Splang
5 on AP Gov
Teacher Recs: APChem teacher: I went in for tutoring with my teacher once a week at 6:00am for the entire year because I was struggling. I got a B then an A.
History Teacher: He is also my XC coach where I have run all 4 years of High school.
Supplemental Rec: I received a personal very positive, unique, and well-written rec letter from a congressman from the gang of eight.
Extracurricluars
ALL year all for4 years:
Cross Country: I am also the captain of the Cross Country Team
Indoor Track: Received most improved award
Outdoor Track: Got varsity sophomore year
Running has taken most of my time.
Running coach for my local neighborhood kids
Neighborhood math tutor
Essays: I believe I have a strong essay shouldn’t hurt or help me IMO
School-specific advantages:
I have a double Legacy at Colombia
I was accepted into the fly in/now a virtual program at Middlebury called Discovery Middlebury
If Columbia is truly your first choice, apply ED. If you aren’t accepted, you can apply ED2 to Middlebury. I would think that given your strong credentials and acceptance to Midd’s fly-in, you would have a high likelihood of acceptance in ED2. Tagging Midd experts @MWolf and @“Contented Panther”
The differences between Columbia and Middlebury go far beyond their surroundings. Columbia is a large research university, while Middlebury is a liberal arts college.
Both are amazing representatives of their particular type of college, but they will provide very different experiences. Middlebury, as a LAC has a far more intense focus on undergraduate education. Education is more personalized, and you will have far more interaction with faculty. Classes will be smaller and include a lot more direct interaction. There will be more chances for individual research and opportunities to work with faculty directly.
Columbia and a top research university will have more independence and will likely reward initiative a lot more. Classes will be larger, which will favor students who prefer a lecture format and following up with the professor later. There are also benefits in having TAs for discussion groups and labs. These are younger, and more aware of the constraints and pressures to which undergraduates are subject. While the work in labs and with faculty is often work with grad students and postdocs, there is a wider selection of labs in which a student can work.
The size of the colleges also means that your social life will be different. Having a smaller student body means that the it is more intimate and often warmer. However, it can also be claustrophobic. Being at a rural ALC also means that the other students are the only game in town - if you cannot find your “people” there are no other possibilities.
In a larger college there are more choices for friendships (and dating), a better chance for finding “your people”, and the rest of NYC also provides a social scene. On the other hand, it can be colder and more alienating, and it requires more emotional a physical effort.
You will get the same top-notch education in either school. So it really boils down to what type of experience you would prefer.
Also - what major are you thinking of? That can make a big difference,.
If, however, after much thought, you cannot decide, but would be happy to attend either, despite the fact that I love Midd, I would recommend that you apply ED to Columbia. As a double legacy for Columbia, applying ED could provide a serious boost, and likely is your best chance at being accepted, while applying to Midd ED will not provide you as much of a boost, relative to RD applications. I also think that your URM status will provide a bigger boost at Middlebury than it will at Columbia, and it will apply during both ED and RD applications.
If you are not accepted to Columbia, apply to Midd EDII.
Sounds to me that your heart is at Middlebury, but that Columbia seems to make a compelling case. As double-legacy latino with high stats, you can surely get into both.
I know that the close-knit community is not as easy at Columbia. There are lots of small groups of students who form friends, and then use NYC as a place to meet up. It won’t be as close knit as Middlebury for sure.
I agree with others, go with Columbia ED, and then Middlebury ED2 if deferred.
I agree you should ED at Columbia and EDII at Midd. My biggest concern right now would be how the educational experience and opportunities will differ in the age of COVID. NYC isn’t what it was a year ago, and who knows when it will be back. Up until now, Middlebury has had tremendous success in reopening, with only 3 cases despite inviting all students back to campus. I think rural colleges and colleges in states with low transmission rates will have an edge next year. Guess we’ll see.
Columbia reports that 82% of classes have under 20 students; Middlebury College reports that just 66% of classes have less than 20 students. If you want smaller classes, then Columbia is the better choice. But, Columbia reports 9% of classes have 50 or more students, while Middlebury reports just 1% of classes have more then 50 students.
ED Columbia. If unsuccessful, EDII to Middlebury College as suggested above by others.
That is the statistic who is most commonly gamed by colleges.
There are two different statistics here - One, the number of classes that the college offers which are fewer than 20 students, and Two, the percent of classes that an undergraduate takes which have more than 20 students.
Colleges like Columbia have hundreds of small niche classes for advanced undergraduates that most students will not take. However, if you check out the size of the required core classes which every student has to take, you suddenly start finding many large classes. Their intro science class is about 600 students
Columbia also has many of their Core curriculum classes which are broken down into small units of 20 or so, most of which are taught by an adjuncts, non TT faculty, and grad students.
So Columbia’s claim of 80% of their classes being fewer than 20 doesn’t mean that students will have these small classes with a professor. While these non-TT instructors are usually brilliant, the benefits of small classes in which a student can interact with a professor are missing when the instructor is not actually a professor.
Columbia’s undergraduate program is served by 1,255 full time faculty, but only 602 of them are tenured or on tenure track…
So, while 80% of the classes may have fewer than 20 students, fewer than 1/2 of the faculty teaching these classes are actually professors (assistant, associate, or full).
The main issues of non-TT faculty are that A, they rarely have the support or time to have full blown research projects for which they would utilize undergraduates, B, they are rarely as well known or connected as TT/tenured faculty, since renown in academia is achieved through research, not teaching, and C, not being tenured means that they do not have any employment guarantee.
Again, all of these can be seen as advantages, however they do indicate that small classes at research universities are qualitatively not comparable to those offered by liberal arts colleges (at least ones like Midd which have a very high percent of TT/Tenure track faculty).
PS. The faculty to student ratios also indicate different things at research universities compared to LACs, since faculty at research universities are also spending time teaching and advising graduate students. At a university like Columbia, graduate students outnumber undergraduates almost 2:1.
MWolf- despite your analysis, someone who wants small classes is more likely to find them in a less popular major than a more popular major. Students have a hard time understanding that Chem 1 is not going to be the same experience as History of musical instruments in the ancient world.
I’ve had kids, nieces, nephews at large U’s who have had seminars with 8 students. So the “you can’t get an LAC experience at a large research U” assumes that a student is majoring in CS, Bio, or another one of the oversubscribed majors. But a comprehensive university is going to have dozens of other departments- and incredible faculty who love teaching and mentoring undergrads. And no- it is not hard to get staffed on a research project with a tenured professor regardless of how many grad students are also in that professor’s orbit.
On CC, fans of LACs often tend to misunderstand the realities of elite private National Universities.
I agree with @blossom’s post above which asserts that class sizes often have to do with the popularity of major areas of study. Also, if a student wants to do research at a National University, it is readily available, but often the paid research assistantships are given to grad students.
The presence of graduate students on a campus often leads to a more serious academic climate.
I wonder if the public Univ. of California schools and the poor student–teacher ratios are influencing some posters opinions about National Universities.
If I recall correctly, Middlebury College had an unexpected excess of students due to a yield miscalculation. Not sure whether or not this has lead to larger classes and crowded dorms.
Nevertheless, the settings of Middlebury College–rural Vermont–and Columbia University–New York City–could not be more different. OP, surely you prefer one setting over the other.
As somebody who was a graduate student at Columbia and taught in the Core and who is currently a faculty in a small major at a large state research university, I agree with both MWolf and blossom. Their assessments don’t necessarily contradict each other. MWolf’s description of the Columbia Core is spot on, many sections of these courses are indeed taught by adjunct faculty and graduate students. This does not necessarily have a negative impact on the students’ experience, as these instructors are highly qualified and are usually passionate and talented teachers, but it’s not the same close relationship with professors that many undergraduates covet. At the same time, a small program at a large university can indeed provide a great deal of individual attention to its undergrads. In any case, it seems that the OP has already made their choice.
I love the city of NYC but ofc, as people have said in the comments about NYC, it is no longer what it is cus of covid. I love the outdoors and I think Middlebury would be a better environment for me even though I may enjoy the city more. I want a close knit community. Thank you for all your help.
@twopathsdiverge - you seem to have made your selection with your choice of username… and the Frost connection is fascinating if that speaks to you (it did to me).
Good luck with ED - make sure you are interviewed by an alum, too.
