UMass has brand new sciences buildings (Integrated. Sciences Building and Life Sciences Lab). New physics building is under construction. S’s friend did very well and had his choice of medical schools.
It’s not a matter of learning per se, as you should be able to find challenging classes through the honors college. It’s more a matter of learning comfort, networking, etc.
Note that until you have one of the competitive scholarships you can’t assume you have one. Massachusetts is peculiar (and remember to check the amount in ‘fees’ ).
As for ‘is it worth it’, ask your parents what THEY think. Apply to Commonwealth Honors EA and Cornell ED if they’re okay with your going to Cornell. If they’re not… What’s the point of applying to Cornell? Finally, what would you feel worse about - attending Cornell for that much money, or attending UMass rather than Cornell?
Do you all think that the scienes, especially chem and engineering, at UMass are as strong as Cornell. If so, then ther is no reason for me to spend the extra money and I should just go to UMass. One thing that does attract me to UMass is the honors college. Intro classes at Cornell can be really big, but honors intro classes are smaller, right?
I think that you are very fortunate and as a parent, I willingly paid for my two kids to go to private colleges. It made me feel good to be able to do so. DW and I went to elite schools and see the value. Life is not all about money. In the long run, we’re all dead.
I think the thing that you are missing is that at Cornell, the quality of your peers, some of whom will be lifelong friends, will push you harder and greatly broaden your world perspective. That’s really the draw to elite schools. UMASS will save you money, but most of your peers will be A-/B+ students from Massachusetts, you will have less exposure to people from other cultures. The expectations people have for what their lives could be will be less worldly, more familiar. You will never have to leave your comfort zone.
Personally, I think the value of an elite education is understated in these forums. While I understand that for some the cost is just too great and causes too many other problems for people, in your case, your parents have saved and budgeted to give you this opportunity, and I suspect their values are similar to mine. I think you should make sure you understand what an elite education is before you consider giving it up.
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I agree with @ClassicRockerDad. My sibling went to an elite university (ranked higher than Cornell) and I went to a good tier II school (like UMA). The opportunities do not compare. He works for a quantitative hedge fund. There is not even widespread awareness of these opportunities at most schools including many of the state flagships. Lots of his peers went to big schools such as Harvard, MIT, Stanford and Caltech for grad school. He had peers who took PhD level courses with him in his area. I also took graduate courses in my concentration, but they don’t quite compare.
Some people are motivated by taking classes with celebrity profs. A research superstar like John Kleinberg or John Hopcroft at Cornell or Michael Jordan at Berkeley. This is also more likely at an elite school, though they can also be found elsewhere.
At the same time, I know folks who went to Cornell and similar schools who have an average career trajectory. Cornell is not the magic ticket to success. It’s not going to make you much more intelligent than the state school. But with effort, it can help to open doors that may otherwise be dead bolted shut.
Some tough assuming here that UMass profs won’t have time for a bright and ardent undergrad in a research field. (And that Cornell profs magically do? Some of this will depend on how OP hunts down opps, forges relationships.) And that Cornell will be less economically diverse. Really, in this day and age? And considering the various parts?
Short answer, I know lots of people who went to UMass. First comment is usually, “It’s big.” But they all loved the experience and all did well, post grad. Honestly. Ask yourself, if you accept Cornell’s (hypothetical) offer tomorrow, will you be pleased and proud or have misc regrets. Then play it the other way, you choose UMass. See if you can learn anything from your own reactions.
Completely untrue. Assuming that the same research caliber student is at UMass and Cornell, they would get similar attention at both. Cornell has more resources overall but at UMA, you are competing with fewer people for the same resources.
Cornell is certainly less economically diverse. Look at the % of students receiving need based aid at Cornell (which has an enormously high tuition). It’s fairly low. But there are benefits to studying with the rich and privileged. I’m not saying that Cornell preferentially admits the wealthy, but the socioeconomics at Cornell and UMASS are vastly different.
As for the peers thing, I see the point others bring up, but it’s not black and white. Everyone from the elite schools seems to say this, but if you are really a top student and go to a department with a highly ranked graduate program (I’m not sure Chem @ UMass is as such, but still), why can’t the grad students be your peers, especially in your upper level courses? And the top 3% at UMASS is not going to be that different than the top 3% at Cornell.
If you’re really after investment banking, hedge funds or consulting, Cornell is the only way if you get in. And if you’re after an elite grad school, Cornell will be of help (and you should go if you get in) but it’s not absolutely necessary to go there. If you want people to think you are smart based on their first impressions and not to have to need to prove yourself each time, Cornell is the way to go. Money is important, but if your parents have saved up, it’s worth focusing more on what is really the best for you. And to be honest, it could very well be UMASS.
^just a small point: grad students are often TA’s. As such, they can’t socialize/go out with undergraduates (many departments make that quite explicit). So, grad students absolutely can be academic peers, but not “peers” in the most common meaning of the word (friends/academic peers?) In any case, grads don’t live in undergraduate dorms, which is why there are Honors Dorms.
There are exceptions, but typically there’s a gulf between grad students’ world and undergraduates.
I had friends who were graduate students, people I’m still in touch with 5 years later. I know of graduate students who dated their undergraduate research lab mates. For students who do undergrad research, there’s a lot of contact with grad students, often more than with professors.
For a lot of undergrads, I do agree that the only contact will be as TA, and your point is valid. While the student and TA are not strictly peers, that interaction is still often valuable and sometimes transformative for students. For example some of the TAs (grad students) at UMASS CS have gone on to be professors at other good schools. And they are more accessible and less intimidating for many at research universities than the real professors. And they often do “teach the ropes” of research, applying to grad school and fellowships to good undergrads.
To offer a differnt perspective, At the great public schools like UMA, UIUC, Maryland, and Purdue, you can see people from all walks of life working to achieve their potential. There is less hand holding and not much grade inflation (this is more debatable as the elite schools have high standards). I find students from these schools very down to earth and yet interesting. It might be a harder path to get where you want but it can still be very rewarding. It’s closer to the “real world”.
I went to a good state school and then transferred to a HYPS. You can get an equally good education at either one at the lecture level. However, the student body and the opportunities afforded by a top school are very very different, as is the learning environment. If you can possibly do it, go to the stronger school. If you can’t get great grades and later apply to a top graduate school.
Further as noted above, for certain industries like finance and consulting, they won’t even consider graduates from outside the top universities and LACs.
I suggest you talk to your parents about the finances to make sure you’re on the same page. Do they have THE money set aside, or will you & they be taking out loans to pay the tuition. Discuss early decision to cornell vs early action to umass amherst. I know of someone who applied early decision to a great school & assumed his parents were going to pay, but the parents said they’re not paying that tuition when other schools offered some scholarships.
Hey Chemguy36! The other posters have given a lot of really great information on here. I studied physics at UMass (CHC) undergrad, though I applied ED to Cornell (I didn’t get in for some complicated reasons). I also had the opportunity to go to an expensive private school on my parents dime, but chose UMass CHC instead.
I am currently in grad school at one of the three other schools you are considering, and I looked at grad school at all of the others. If you’re interested, I’d be happy to answer some of your questions via PM. Good luck with the application cycle!
@darkmatter2012 are you happy with your experience at UMASS CHC???
My daughter is currently a sophomore at Isenberg and CHC. she loves it! She also applied to Cornell ED and did not get in. She wasn’t overly surprised at that but then she got deferred from Villanova EA (was very surprised at that!). At about this same time she got her admission to UMass Isenberg and CHC. She had never really intended on going to Umass, it was her safety, our state school, too many kids from her high school would be going there, etc, etc. However her situation made her actually do some research on UMass, Isenberg and the CHC. She was pleasantly surprised by what she was finding out. She ended up getting waitlisted at BC, Villanova and Lehigh but by that time she didn’t care. She was committed to going to Umass. She just has been offered internships for next summer at both Akamai Technologies and Liberty Mutual (she picked Akamai Tech), having a great time, lving in the new CHC dorms, has made great friends. Over winter break she is going to Italy on an Isenberg sponsored trip to study Italian business. She will graduate debt free due to how much we said we would cover per year and her scholarships. That’s a huge plus!
Good luck!
What did you chose?