Hi, I am a high school senior in Boston. I visited UMass a few weeks ago and was genuinely impressed by it. The other colleges that I am seriously considering are #1 Cornell, #2 Michigan, and UMass and UVa are tied for number three. When I visited, I saw the new ISB and met with a few chemistry and engineering professors as well as sat in on a chemistry class. I liked the school, but not as much as Cornell or Michigan. I am a little conflicted. I am a very strong student (high GPA, SAT, and lots of extracurriculars), so I am very competive for the four schools on my list. However, UVa, Cornell, or Michigan are twice as expensive as UMass. Money is not the biggest issue for my family, but it is still worth considering. I do not qualify for financial aid, but my parents have set aside money for me to go to any college I want. Nonetheless, I am having trouble rationalizing spending twice as much as another school that may be better, but not necessarily twice as good. Although I have done well in school, it will still be difficult for me to get into Cornell. I liked Cornell a lot. I plan on applying Early Decision, but if I get in, I will not be able to go to UMass even if they offer me a lot of merit aid. I am fairly outgoing person. I am not worried about a big school because I know I will stand out. I was hoping to hear from other students who were top in their high school and decided to go to UMass and who are preferably in the Honors College, but any advice would be great. I hope I have not come off too elitist, but I would really like your help. I have a few questions that will help me decide:
Why did you choose UMass? Did you get into any "top tier" schools? If you do not mind sharing, why did you choose UMass over those schools?
In high school, I take only AP and Honors classes. I am surrounded by other really smart kids. Is it similar at UMass? Are there a lot of really bright kids at UMass. Does a school that accepts half of all applicants have the same level of bright students who I like to be around?
Were you offered any merit aid?
Do you feel slowed down or held back by your peers?
This may be a hard question to answer because you do not go to another school, but maybe you know a little about it from talking to friends at "top tier" schools. Are you learning as much as you would at, let's say, an Ivy League? Are the classes as difficult as an Ivy class? How do the classes, especially freshman classes, compare to classes in high school? Do you feel that because UMass is easier to get into than an Ivy League, students are less bright, so the classes are easier and you don't feel as challenged? Do you think that at an Ivy League the classes cover more material because there are "smarter" students who can handle more material?
Have you gotten involved in any research? Were you able to start early?
Are any of your double majoring? Are any of you double majoring between schools? Do you think it would be possible to double major between engineering and chemistry?
Has UMass helped or hurt your job and grad school prospects compared to if you had gone to an Ivy League?
Do you have any regrets about going to UMass?
Do you think it matters where you go undergrad if you plan on going to grad school? If I work really hard at UMass, do I have a chance of going to a top grad school? After grad school, will it matter where I went undergrad?
Do you think professors are dedicated to undergrads?
I have heard there is a lot of bureaucracy at Umass. Is this true?
Do you stand out in your classes? Do you think this has helped you? Has it helped you get research opportunities?
Any advice for me on choosing what college to go to?
Is there anything that I have written that isn't true? Please correct me, so I can be more informed and less ignorant.
Thank you for all your help. This will really help me with my decision
UMA is a fantastic school. I have two nieces that graduated from there and both got very good jobs, one graduated from ISB and the other from the honors college with an degree in math/finance/accounting, not sure exactly but went to work for Raytheon. I would apply there EA to have it in the bank and apply to the other three RD to see what their finaid packages work out to be. Only then can you make a choice.
1° Be careful: UMass is tuition-low, fees-high - so a âfull tuitionâ scholarship may cover 4K, whereas the âfeesâ are 12K. So, costs may not be as low as they look.
2° UMass is excellent for CS and its Honors College is excellent. Nevertheless, itâs not Cornell. Is it worth spending more for Cornell? I think you shouldnât make up your mind right now. However, you should remember that your family saved money for your college, therefore you CAN legitimately choose to attend Cornell. Many parents consider there are few investments as precious as their kidâs education. Something else: if you donât use the money for college, what will it be used for, and is that something you and your parents are comfortable with and/or consider more important than college costs?
3° You may be competitive for Cornell etc, but itâs no slam dunk. Your plan to apply to UMass EA is excellent and itâs fantastic you loved it. This way, you know you have an excellent college to go to. If you end up admitted to Cornell (etc) as well as Commonwealth Honors, then youâll make a choice.
All in all Commonwealth Honors students will be top students. Depending on the subject and course, âgeneralâ classes may be slower-paced (some math/science classes at MIT or Ivis cover 2 semesters in one) or go less in-depth and the curve may be stricter at UMass than at a top university, BUT engineering is tough everywhere and you will be challenged regardless of where you go - it may be a bit different if you like humanities for example as the level will generally be much higher at Ivies than at Umass (ie., AP English is a given and you get no credit for it at most Ivies.)
Profs cant be âdedicated to undergradsâ. Theyâre at a research university for, guess what, research. Undergrads are incidental. They may like teaching them or may find them a burden, itâll depend on the professor. If you want professors dedicated to undergrads, look at LACs. A difference will be regarding TAâs. Youâll have TAâs both at Ivies and UMass, but international TAâs at Ivies are expected to have better spoken English.
NEPatsGirl & MYO thank you for your responses. They were very detailed and informative. As it stands now, I am leaning towards Chemistry and engineering for my two majors. I recognize that engineering is a tough major, so it may be difficult to double major on top of that. If all engineering colleges need to be accredited, what do you think differentiates Cornell and Michigan form UMass? Does UMass not have as good facilities, teachers, etc? I have excelled in chemistry in high school. I took AP Chem last year and I am now taking orgo. I want to feel that I am at a good chemistry school. I want the classes to be extremely challenging, the professors to care about me, and for there to be research opportunities. Do you know if I could start taking grad level chemistry classes as an undergrad? Do you think if I go to UMass, I have a real chance of going to a top Chem grad school like Berkeley or MIT? If so, then why does it matter where I go undergrad. I can save a lot of money and still end up in the same place.
I am somewhat convinced that UMass has great academics, but the students who you are surrounded with by matters, too. What do you think is the value of saying you went to UMass. Is the prestige of Cornell really worth twice as much? If I double major at UMass, work really hard and get 4.0 gpa, doing research for 4 years, and get amazing letters of recommendation, do you think itâll matter where I went? Or do you think there is still a big difference between saying I am a Cornell grad versus a UMass grad?
When it comes to the finances, my parents have saved for me to go to an expensive college. My sister goes to a very expensive small liberal arts school, and they are prepared to send me to a similarly costly college. However, with her, she could not handle a large university. I specifically want a large school. UMass fits my profile of a college that I want. It is near the outdoors, large, research university, has a graduate program. Going to Umass saves $160k compared to Cornell. That is a lot. I do not qualify for financial aid anywhere, so we would be paying sticker price. If I go to Umass, my dad will get me a car. He also says that some of the money that we save will go towards their retirement and/or start up funds if I every decide to start a company.
As it stands, I am fine with going to Umass. It is not my last choice nor first choice. I liked Cornell a lot more, but I didnât think it was twice as good to justify the huge cost difference. I would be happy with going to UMass. It is a fine college. I just would be happier elsewhere. Thank you for all your input!
Itâs not a matter of prestige. Itâs a matter of comfort and opportunities - funds to present at an undergraduate research conference, funds for your research or for the lab where you work, etc. Your peers at UMass will be more socio-economically diverse than at Cornell and will represent a better cross-section of the state whereas Cornell will include more students from all over the US and all over the world, but itâll be less economically diverse.
Is it worth 160K? Only you can decide. I really think you should wait till after decisions are given, before you make your final decision. Either choice would be fine but theyâre different.
Note that you ABSOLUTELY cannot count on getting a 4.0 at Umass. In fact, even a 3.7 would be exceptional, especially if you study engineering.
UMinnesota Twin Cities and UDel are both nationally known for chemical engineering if you are looking for more universities.
UMASS has new, state-of-the art science facilities. Apply to all of them and decide in May after you really know what you are looking at. As long as you donât have to take out any loans, any of them can be a smart choice.
I donât think that I can necessarily get into Cornell if I do not apply early decision. Since I liked Cornell a lot, I was planning on applying ED. I am only planning on applying early action and early decision to colleges. I will be abroad in the second half of the year, so I will not be able to visit colleges for accepted studentsâ day. I kind of need to make my decision before I go abroad in January.
If youâre studying computer science or linguistics and especially if you get to graduate level classes, UMASS and Cornell are surprisingly comparable in quality.
@Chemguy36 Iâm not at UMASS. I was considering it for college. The curricula are very similar and the rigor are similar in core CS courses. Cornell is more rigorous, but surprisingly not much more so. So if you get into Cornell, Iâd suggest it. But you wouldnât be losing much by going to UMASS, specifically for CS. Cornell has armies of assistants for its courses, so youâll get a lot more support there. Iâm not sure, for CS specifically, if UVA or Michigan are stronger than UMASS.
If you apply ED to Cornell and are accepted, arenât you required to attend there? Itâs not EA but ED, right? Youâve already said money is really not an issue, and thatâs about the only thing that can get you out of an ED agreement. To apply ED without that commitment is not fair to those who apply ED and truly want to go there, as you take up a spot that you may bail out of.
ED is binding. If I apply ED and get accepted, I will go there. I really like Cornell and want to study there. I do not think I can get into Cornell if I apply RD. I am trying to decide if it is worth applying ED to Cornell.
Yes, do it if Cornell is your first choice. Not sure, but maybe you can EA to UMA at the same time? Its just nice to have something set in case Cornell doesnât come through for you.
Yes, a student can EA and ED at the same time. A student can send many applications at the same time as the ED app, simply, if s/he is admitte and itâs financially affordable, they have to rescind their applications to all other universities.
@Chemguy36 writes âMoney is not the biggest issue for my family, but it is still worth considering. I do not qualify for financial aid, but my parents have set aside money for me to go to any college I want. Nonetheless, I am having trouble rationalizing spending twice as much as another school that may be better, but not necessarily twice as good.â
If you can get into Cornell, do it. I donât know how to judge one school as twice as good as another. But the extra cost is worth an Ivy education to carry with you the rest of your life. Whether that prestige is warranted does not matter. Thatâs just the way it is.
UVa or Michigan? A little less so, as OOS tuition is so high, and the student body at nearly all flagships will have a majority of spaces reserved for in-staters. (At UNC Chapel Hill, for example, itâs over 80%).
But you asked in question 11, regarding UMass. âDo you think professors are dedicated to undergrads?â The answer is no, as itâs a research university. Profs are dedicated to grad students. Same answer for Michigan and UVa). If you want profs dedicated to undergrads, consider an LAC like Amherst or Swarthmore or Haverford.
Think very carefully before applying ED to Cornell. A friendâs daughter last year was admitted ED to an Ivy. Between the time she submitted her app and the time she was accepted, she received a new stellar ACT score and 30-40k per year merit scholarship offers from Tulane and Fordham. These were not anticipated. She wanted to accept the Tulane one, but she could not get out of her ED commitment. Paying full fare at the Ivy is possible for her parents, but it is a stretch, and they would have preferred that she attend Tulane and save some resources for grad school. She is happy at the Ivy now, but her second thoughts really took the joy out of her ED acceptance. So dont do ED unless you are surer than sure.
Since you are asking whether Cornell is worth the extra money, it seems that you have some doubt about whether it is worth it. If you have doubt, it seems ED is a risky choice for you.
Ultimately, I like Cornell a lot. Although recently I have been having some cold feet about it. I am concerned it is too competitive, there is not enough collobaration, and it is too isolated. I think I am just having general worriness about what college will be like and it is manifesting in cold fee about Cornell. Nonetheless, I like Cornell a lot. I want to go there. It would be harder for me to get in if I apply RD. I am fairly confident if I apply ED, I will get in, but nothing is guaranteed. Iâm now trying to decide if I should send apply ED to Cornell or not. Is it really worth twice the cost compared to UMass? Does anyone have experience with going to UMass, studying a science, and then going to a top tier grad school in sciences? It would be great to hear what your experience was like. Did you feel held back by your undergraduate peers? Did you feel that you hadnât learned as much as your peers in grad school who came from Ivy League colleges? Thank you!
