Should I just give up applying?

Applying to College
41

I’ve read the whole thread and it seems like OP’s parents are pretty stubborn and unwilling to change. Yeah, many of us have not grown up with verbally abusive parents, but we’re trying to give the best advice we can. Here’s my take. I’m surprised that no one actually suggested this. Well I think it’s a little late in the game, but it would have been best if you’d attended a college fair with your dad or visited any of the schools you were interested in and MET with an actual admissions officer who could have answered and corrected your dad’s information about colleges. That would have been the best. In fact, you can still do that, but it might be difficult. You can say you need to visit the schools since visiting will allow you to interact with students, faculty, and give you a chance to check in with admissions office about what they are looking for. I don’t remember where all you are applying…so this is just one possibility. Otherwise, you need to pull up the college’s site- some colleges will say some stuff about the characteristics of its students. I can’t name any right now that did…I will try and find some and give some more tailored advice in a bit. If you don’t find stuff on official college sites, you then need to look to reputable sources for examples of college essays and other information. Show your Dad this. Explain that applicants are getting even better and colleges are getting tougher to get into so the criteria has changed as a result. (This may not be fully true, but I guess that’s about all you can say to not offend your Dad?)

I’m going to guess that your family has strong value system- more specifically, believe in younger people respecting older people. So you want to speak to your Dad in a way that does not offend him or disrespect him. You need to be also understanding. It’s hard, I know.

Some info about myself. I kinda understand how you feel since I have parents that are very overeager about involving themselves in the college application process. My parents sometimes can say some mean things, but they don’t always mean it and have good intentions with their actions. I understand that, but because of this, we don’t really have the best relationship. I love them, but I also fear them. I was too afraid to pitch my ideas for my college essay since I didn’t want my parents to immediately debunk the idea or chastize me for it. So, I started working on two essays- the essay I said I would write and the essay I really wanted to write. I’m lucky also since my dad decided to look up college essays and advice. He meant it with good intention when he helped me out, but I was too afraid to say my idea. But, I came to terms that this is my life and I need to be honest about how I feel. So I came clean before submitting the app since anyway my parents were going to find out about the essay since they too also sit with me when I submit them. I told them and we had a discussion. I explained why I didn’t like my Dad’s idea and why I thought mine was better. My dad, then read my essay, and okay’d the idea. He gave some feedback and we were both happy.

BACK TO YOU, OP. The point is, you need a little courage and you need to honestly, but respectfully speak to your Dad. Leave your mom out of the conversation since it seems like she’ll agree with anything your Dad is going to say. You could have both of them there when you explain honestly, but that’s up to you. Bring the evidence- college websites and reputable sources and your argument. Be willing to listen to your Dad. Take his considerations to heart. I suggest asking him about college applications- start the discussion. Then slowly ease into the college essay and what colleges are looking for.

It might sound like too much. It will be. I was very scared to tell my Dad that I didn’t write what I said I would, but he was glad that I was honest. You need to ask yourself- are you willing to keep living in fear of your Dad and constantly abide like a puppet without a voice? If not, then you need to start taking the steps to some freedom. This is your life and your education. Take some control. Take the first leap. You can do it.

PM me if you want to talk more.

42

@MuffinLord1. May be I am wrong, but I don’t think that standing up to his father at this critical juncture is any good advice. Applications are due in three weeks. It will create more stress and anxiety for the student. The best shrewd and favorable approach will be to get it resolved without creating a lot of drama.
Later in life, he can do that but now is not the time.

43

@jambajuice1 And how would you suggest getting it resolved without a lot of drama? Submitting the surgically edited essays? Editing the Dad’s version of the essay slightly? That could work. If OP’s Dad doesn’t reread the essays very carefully, then OP could keep the first paragraph almost the same and make changes here and there- but I think it’d be far wiser to change the essay to what OP wants.

In fact, some applications are due this week and at the end of the month- various deadlines. But, my opinion is the stress and anxiety that accompanies taking a stance is minuscule compared to the stress and anxiety from wondering whether you even have any chance anymore- an essay can mean alot at top colleges. For me, especially, I’d forever wonder if I would have made it in if my essay was better. Plus, the relief of having expressed your opinions and resolved the problem will make the stress worth it. I don’t mean to sound masochistic- I am simply saying that the relief outweighs the discomfort. If OP tackles the problem now, then OP doesn’t have to worry for every college he/she applies to.

44

A middle ground is the answer…

45

I would submit the apps on your own in the down low - using YOUR essays. If you can’t find another way, I would take the risk and use his credit card (just write down the numbers - actually CA saves all the info except the 3/4 digit code so it should already be in there). Once you’ve submitted - what is he going to do? Call the school? Once submitted, there is no turning back. Just do it.

Also, just change the password on the CA login.

46

I don’t think that OP using her dad’s credit card without permission would go over well. Parents can do plenty. It’s not unheard of for them to refuse to pay for school or kick children out when they turn 18. Being blatantly disrespectful to her parents won’t help the situation.

47

So the parent cares so much about these essays because they want their kid to get into a great college, but they will refuse to pay for school or kick them out at 18 if they put in the honest information on the colleges they were already planning on applying for? I don’t buy it.

And I don’t make this suggestion lightly - but its pretty clear that there is no reasoning with the dad at this point.

48

The parent is involved because he thinks he knows the trick better than others. Starting a ruckus won’t change that. My main thought is OP deserves a chance to submit his own best shot.

DH, as a professor, thought he knew what good writing is (sure, but for class papers and his own work.) The irony is, I’ve read plenty of essays and know the difference. There was no convincing him until I got it through to him that this was D1’s to win or lose, her satisfaction with her effort. Pointing out a poor word choice or hanging sentence is fine, but the more important lesson was her feeling she submitted her own best. (In a high stakes competition, that’s important.)

OP can’t get there just by protesting. Even a kindly email from the GC could help tell Dad this is meant to be well done, but more informal writing than in other circumstances. An if OP has to submit on the sly, maybe that’s what he does. There are no easy answers.

49

Saw this in the Stanford Class of 2021 Applicant Discussion thread by a parent whose daughter was just accepted to Stanford REA and immediately thought of this thread.

@Thetwins Hope you don’t mind. I think this could be helpful to other parents and students. Congrats to your daughter AND to you for letting her do it her way.)

I don’t know if it’s possible with a parent like this and it’s probably too late now, but my suggestion would have been to try to approach the father calmly and sincerely in a non-confrontational manner and convey that he knows his father only has the best of intentions and wants the best for him, but if he gets rejected with his father’s edits, he might always wonder if that was the reason why.

Maybe that would sink in and the father would have to really think about whether he wanted to live with that hanging over his head.

50

@suzyQ7 @austinmshauri @jambajuice1 @MuffinLord1 @SuburbMom Thanks to all of you. I’ve read all the responses, and I’m truly lucky to have all of you giving me such helpful advice. As a quick disclaimer, I know my dad wants the best for me! It’s just that his perspective of the best is somewhat distorted, and I have to change that, which is why I’m following the suggestions in the comments.

First line of attack includes showing him “50 successful Harvard application essays” and meeting with my counselor. My meeting with my counselor was delayed until tomorrow, which is when Harvard decisions come out, so I’m holding whatever hope I can but preparing myself for deferral. But regarding the essays on other colleges, I’ve accepted the fact that letting my dad edit should be restricted to just comments, not rewording/extensive edits. I’m NOT going to let him rip apart my essays any longer, no matter what, and if my GC can’t do anything, then I’ll use the most reasoned, calm discussion I can have to explain that I do not want him editing any longer. It’s going to be tough from him, and no doubt he will hold slack from the colleges I will get rejected from. He’s done that in the past when I deviated from him and not done so well (i.e. getting a 4 on AP Chem after I denied his help and getting slack for it whenever he gets angry), but I feel it’s the best option for my own conscious.

Submitting with his credit card could be possible. I feel that he is bluffing when he says that he won’t pay application fees, and his cultural norms restrict the idea that he could throw me out – that would be a sin. So, I’ll consider just using his card, because I know he won’t revoke the applications. However, this is a last gasp option.

@1Dreamer I appreciate that link; nice to see that someone else was relieved of a parent like mine. Unfortunately, any rejections brought upon by his essays will be seen as my failure, not his. He’s perfect in his opinion.

@lookingforward Thanks… I pondered the idea that my file will get thrown out, and I still find such an idea premature. I’m a Valedictorian in a class of 700, all my ECs are pretty solid, and test scores (SAT/ACT/Subject tests) are above Harvard’s 75th percentile. Thus, I would find it strange if they deferred me just because of that. But you never know, to be honest. I called Harvard today and asked them if they believe the additional essay uploaded had been read. They said that everything uploaded is read by the officer, but there’s no guarantee that the essays were switched, which makes me nervous given that I feel I’m a competitive applicant.

@MedSciBud Thanks for reading, dude. I appreciate the feedback, and I hope you get in tomorrow!!

@FishyBears Hahah, very refreshing to know someone like me! You’re a very intelligent writer. I appreciate your thoughts and sympathy. As evident in the rest of this comment, I’m going to stand up.

51

Right, the original may still be there, the replacement downloaded as an additional. My bet is they will have read the second.

Generally, we tell kids not to submit extraneous extras. Some will say it clouds reviewers’ perception of you. But this case is very different, you tried to correct an issue. Adcoms can have quick impressions, but they hold a final “sense,” their final opinion, until they’ve seen all of the file.

This is a life lesson of sorts. Something you’ll learn from. Please understand that it’s so hard to get into a tippy top, so many variables are beyond your control- geo diversity, how many kids apply from your local area, your major, and more. If you don’t get in, it’s not your failure.

Best wishes. Let us know.

52

I agree, @1Dreamer , a 17 year old’s voice is very differnt from an adult’s voice. I don’t doubt that adcoms can spot the essay written by the parent a mile away. OP was kind enough to let me read both essays he submitted to Harvard and I can say unequivocally that his own essay was more authentic than the one his father made him submit. I hope Harvard read both and considered only his second. Good luck OP, I hope things work out for you.

53

@Lindagaf @lookingforward Thanks to both of you guys! I got deferred, which was expected, nonetheless disappointing. At least I have control over the rest of my applications henceforth, and I really appreciate all the help you’ve given to me!

54

Deferred is not a loss, though. You are still in the game. It’s hard to wait- and you won’t know more until March. But, hey, you know you made it past first cut and all the way to maybe. You’re a good kid. Best Wishes, going forward.

55

Hi everyone, just a quick update.

This holiday season, my dad has taken sick days to “help” me with my essays. I confronted him rationally (IMO) using my mentioned reasons; when I asked him to please stop editing and that I really don’t want him editing my essays because he’s not me, he simply said, “That’s not going to happen.” I proposed what I think is a reasonable system: I write the essays, I share them over Google Docs, he comments on the Google Doc, and I made the edits as I see necessary. He berates me, saying I’m an arrogant kid who thinks he’s a God because I want full discretion over what to put in my essays. He then proceeded to make note of my disrespect, saying how anyone in my position would accept everything he says. He made a special point of saying how when I have kids, I will raise horrible kids. At this point, my mom told him to stop.

I really don’t know; I just don’t. Am I a bad person? Am I an obstinate kid? Am I a terrible writer? Do I not know what colleges are looking for in an essay? My friends and this community tells me I’m not a bad writer, but my own family thinks I am. Everything I’ve heard from others is that you’re supposed to “be yourself” and show “who you are” in essays. Yet, he tells me that “no one cares about who you are”. His point is that his professional job is editing company papers, which is quite ironic since his degree is vastly different from his occupation, and that he thus knows exactly how to write. But my point is that an adult’s work largely different from that of a teenager.

As a result, we’ve largely reverted back to the old system. He gives me a couple of hours to write something; I simply can’t write under definite time restrictions. I produce substandard work. He says it’s horrible and asks me, “This is what you do in 4 hours?” I should note that he ALWAYS over-exaggerates the time he gives me. 1.5 hours turns into 4 hours.

For the first few days of holidays, with a fresh sense of confidence from this thread, I contended every edit he’d given me after I initially confronted him. But after I discovered that this just wastes too much time, I just stare in the distance when I sit next to him. He tells me what to edit; I put it in.

Really, my only solace is that we have already made a college list (he wants me to apply to all Ivies). He thinks I’m not applying to any other schools, so I’m trying to work hard to get essays for my other schools done, often working until 4AM each night. Ironically, I’m accustomed to staying up this late due to my schoolwork (turns out my late night study sessions have paid off lol).

Thanks for reading. I apologize for any incoherence. This was written on a stream-of-consciousness.

56

This is a bad situation but you’re making the best of it.
Get those essays to other colleges done, but do not submit right away, give yourself a bit of space to review them, check them, then send. He won’t be able to un-send them.
If o u have one hour and a half to write something that’ll be torn down, use 45mn for your own essays. 45mn for the future torn down essay is plenty.
When you sit and get berated, think of those essays: one will get you into a college of your choice. Your dad is ensuring you’re not going to the Ivy League, but that’s okay.
Have you applied to colleges with full tuition /full ride scholarships? Your dad sounds unusually controlling and may throw a a tantrum when you didn’t get into any Ivy. You need to have a college to go to where you don’t need him so that he cannot control you through His willingness to pay or not.

57

@pocrocodro I feel sad he is undermining your confidence, you are obviously a smart kid. I will pm you.

58

OP, do you need/want help coming up with a list of full merit scholarship schools that you could apply to in addition to the Ivies you dad has on your list?

Also - this might be very uncomfortable BUT have you thought of leveling with your college counselor about exactly what is really going on? You could email him/her this link and let him/her know that you are the poster … there may be a way she could contact the colleges with a letter explaining what is going on and send your versions of all the essays so the colleges would “get” the full degree of the abuse (yes, I call it abuse).

I’m really sad about what you have to go through. You sound like an amazing kid that any parent would love to have.

Please keep us posted. We’re rooting for you!

59

Is your dad awake at 3 am? Submit then and suffer the consequences. I have seen your writing. You write well, and your voice is genuine. I wish you would show this to your dad. I help college students with essays professionally. Colleges want to see essays written by 17 year olds and they can spot an essay written by an adult a mile away. Your father needs to back off. Why does he bother to suggest you write anything? He should just write it himself. Your father is doing you a grave disservice.

You have a much better chance of getting into colleges with your essays than with his. His interference is hurting your prospects, and you can tell him I said so. Seriously, submit the essays when he is sleeping. Your mom seems sympathetic, tell her of your plans. Let your mom read all that we have said. Or tell her about it all after the fact. Unless he is physically abusive, you should take your chance. My guess is that once you get your acceptances, he will calm down.

Or. Call his bluff and do not submit any applications. There will be a ton of colleges that will be on a clearing list by May, that still have places available. There are many excellent colleges on that list. Apply then, and let the chips fall where they may. Your dad is a disrespectful bully. Good luck to you.

60

I have an idea in case of the absolute worst. Not sure if it’d work.

I’ll test it on my own computer today and let you know if it works (on my phone right now). Basically, copy and paste YOUR essays, how YOU want them, onto your phone’s notepad.

Then, let your dad edit and everything on the computer before you submit the application. Leave a few basic questions on the commonapp blank so that he can’t actually submit it himself when you do the next step, which is

Ask to “go to the bathroom” and then go to the bathroom and on your phone, copy and paste all of your actual essays into the application. Then go back to the computer, refresh the page, and submit. It SHOULD have YOUR essays, but again, I’ll test this theory later today.