Should I renew this friendship?

Parent Cafe
21

<p>Hey I didn’t realize you were a young person. I think that would change a lot of what I wrote; and I have a better sense of where you are coming from. </p>

<p>I think with time these things won’t get your goat so much. Not that I don’t share your pet peeve, but you know, it doesn’t evoke “emotion” like it would when I was young. As an ancient adult I’ve seen very horrendous things happen to very good people, I saw my own parents work extremely hard, I’ve experienced the fragility of life and walked through painful grief. With time, stuff that used to drive you nuts doesn’t matter as much as it used to. Emotions mellow. Things are not simple. And you learn a lot (not that one doesn’t know these things earlier but they get more internalized with age). Stuff like life isn’t fair. People say stupid stuff. Everywhere you go you sometimes run into morons, insensitive jerks, and narrow minded people. People are complex and come with both good parts and not so good parts. You can usually just change the scenery and move on. Just deal, in other words. </p>

<p>Fortunately I do find that with age and maturity, one gets better at finding the people that fulfill them, and when to let go. You also probably hang out with more mature people as you mature, and they are probably less likely to say offensive things as well. That helps too.</p>

22

<p>Agree with thoe who said if she brings joy to your life and you want to renew the friendship, then fine. But to do it to appease friends or get closure isnt necessary. Has she changed or will you be going through the same thing all over again if she starts the lecturing again?</p>

<p>I have a long term friend (of over 30 yrs) who is divorced and has no kids, but loves to lecture me on how I should handle my kids or H. The one that really fried my cookies was when she tried to tell me how my Hs new company’s management structure worked. She had no clue. She just assumed it was like her old company (who she hasnt worked for for 5 or more years) and that I must not know what I was talking about. Needless to say, she was wrong… I am very close to telling her that when we talk, if I want her opinion (which is usually negative) I’ll ask for it. As you can tell, our friendship provides me with little benefit right now. I try to step back and look at our history, but right now its mostly annoying, so I may step back a bit and get some breathing room. I did tell her I wouls let her drive from now on if we go anywhere, as I am tired of her telling me how to drive. If you feel the same way, follow your gut.</p>

23

<p>It sounds like this friendship is more of a liability than anything else. if it is not providing you with any benefit (support, affirmation, validation, companionship) I’d say let it go. My guess, like some of the other posters, is that she is reaching out because she feels that she didn’t get the “job” done yet.</p>

<p>I was raised Catholic but have been away from the church for a while. I have no desire to return and am happier without it in my life. A few of my friends have tried to nudge me back or have suggested other organized religions that I might find a good fit. I try to make it clear that I’M fine. The need to box me up and package me is for their benefit, not mine. I think it speaks to the other person’s sense of vulnerability and insecurity. When you are without an organized religion or without religion at all, it can be frightening to someone who is very invested in their faith. I’m not saying that is true of every devout person but i do believe it is the case with many.</p>

24

<p>“Someone very wise told me that friendship was suppose to make us feel good about ourselves, if I always felt bad whenever I am around someone then it’s a toxic relationship”</p>

<p>Many years ago, I had a circle of “friends”; there was a particular friend that when a new person was invited to our events, she began criticizing and saying mean comments of one of the other girls. I told myself it is not worthy anymore…and left the group. I still miss them dearly, however I concluded it was toxic and the friendship with that particular “friend” was not a happy one. I miss my friends and still talk with some of them. To avoid splits and problems among them I did not complain to them about my feelings concerning that particular behavior. I departed from the group gradually and provided an excuse to no longer participate in our activities. After moving up to another state I have better friends.</p>

<p>I don’t know what to tell you but think about this: If that was the only problem you had with her and you could put the pain in the past maybe you could give a try to the friendship. Probably your friend is a good person and she suffered because she considers you a wonderful friend and miss you; if you could put the situation behind and get together and do not bring the subject or the past then you could be friends again.<br>
Your friend already learned to not lecture you…Best wishes!</p>

25

<p>

Or maybe they really love you, and think what they’re suggesting would help you. Look, I know I’m harping on this–but some of you are not being fair to the motivations of the people who are preaching to you. And this:

Maybe. But maybe we all need to have at least one friend who will tell us what we don’t really want to hear.</p>

26

<p>Maybe you should also flip the situation for a second and think about the friend. You are also setting down rules to her. You are stating that she cannot be a part of your life if she doesn’t accept the fact that you are an aetheist.</p>

<p>You are placing a condition on the friendship that is all about you. You are telling her that she must hide a big part of her life. Friendship is a 2 way street, and it seems to me that both of you are placing conditions on the friendship. She wants to change you and you want to change her. Granted she may want to make you a believer in religion, but at the same time you want her to tone down her connection to her faith.</p>

<p>I think the truly adult thing is to talk to her and say your true feelings. If it is that you think she is a great person, but at this point emotionally you don’t mesh, so be it. Let her understand you would love to see her social groups and she will always be a part of your past life, but you two are on different paths right now. Maybe in the future the road will bend and turn again so you are on the same path, but for now the most you can offer is a connection. </p>

<p>Maybe if you have the conversation, she will say I am willing to bend to your terms and not discuss religion to the best of her ability. Like I have said I have said it often to others, it is God’s will, never did I think someone would take that as preaching my religion. Don’t jump to the fact that her verbage means she is going to come to your home on Sunday afternoon for lunch and reiterate what she learned in church that day.</p>

27

<p>I can agree with Bullet, only in a small way. I agree the Op is placing a condition on the possible friendship. I agree the other friend is putting her condition on the friendship by continuing to discuss her choice of religion.
Bullet loses me at second part of her paragraph 2. Op isn’t in any way dictating how the other friend believes. Only asking her to keep it to herself. The Op tells us she has already discussed the topic of religion. The Op tells us she has already told the other she doesn’t want to hear about her religion, yet the friend continues. Now Bullet (and I) have a better understanding that saying “God’s will” can be interpreted as preaching one’s religion.
This thread isn’t a debate on the merit, or the ettiquette of Protestants, Catholics, Atheists, agnostics, jews, or any other religion. It is all about a friend that continually brings up a subject the Op doesn’t want to hear, despite being advised not to bring it up. Simply put, that makes the friends’ company unenjoyable.</p>

28

<p>young, but by telling her to keep it to herself, she is telling her to change. She is saying you must ignore that part of your life if you want to be in my life. We don’t know how religious this friend truly is, we just know that she says things which the OP interprets as pushing religion.</p>

<p>For example, we have both acknowledged that we never meant God’s Will as an offensive comment, but have learned that we should become more cognizant when we state it because it could be offensive to others.</p>

<p>Now on the flip side, I, as a Catholic, have been in her situation where I am totally offended because people will say “I just know everyday that I have to say thanks to JC, my Lord, my Savior for protecting me”. I get their beliefs, but in the back of my mind I feel that this type of comment does not need to be stated. Say, “I thank God that this never happened to me” is akin to God’s will. It is personal about yourself, and just your common way of expression. When you get to JC, it becomes a different level. Again, I probably feel that way because my MIL is Jewish, and I know for her JC is a touchy subject, but even as a Jew she believes in God, so if you say the latter comment it is not offensive to her.</p>

<p>I also agree that the OP feels the subject of religion is the true basis of the problem, but like Dr. Phil says there are always 2 sides to the pancake. </p>

<p>Here’s my question to the OP, how is religion becoming a big issue? I have a ton of friends and rarely if ever does religion become a part of the conversation in a social environment. We only talk about it when the holidays roll around, or if one of our kids are celebrating a religious event. Friday night sharing a glass of wine and even at the ripe old age of 45 we are talking about funny stuff that happened during the week. I seriously can only remember one conversation that KIND OF took a religious bend when we were discussing a hotter topic, which was abortion. </p>

<p>If religion comes up that frequently, than my opinion is the relationship really is superficial and not worth it. Friendship is about commonality that crosses multiple boundaries. It should range from the guy in your life to the newest fashion to your personal dreams. Religion has no place in any of those, unless you are going to say you would love to become a Nun, but hate the outfits and you are only wanting to be a nun to be close to the priest!</p>

29

<p>

</p>

<p>The OP isn’t asking the friend to change her beliefs–just exercise tact on a subject the OP is uninterested in. </p>

<p>Let’s flip it around a little. If an atheist truly believes religion is irrational and causes wars, should they bring it up constantly and rub it in their religious friend’s face? Or would that be DISRESPECTFUL? How about if the atheist really thinks the religious person would be better off and happier not believing in God? Does that make it okay to harass their religious friends over it? Ignoring requests to drop the subject?</p>

<p>I don’t know about you, but I find that kind of haranging irritating, whether it’s coming from Zealous Religious Girl or Zealous Atheist. The OP has not tried to belittle the “friend’s” religious beliefs, she’s just made it clear that she, the OP, does not want to hear about them. Since the “friend” is incapable of respecting this simple request, I don’t think the OP is missing out on much by cutting ties with this person.</p>

30

<p>Naturally, I think “irritating” is a good word here–it’s less loaded than “offensive” or even “disrespectful.” If I had a friend who was a vegan who was constantly trying to get me to stop eating meat, I would probably find that annoying, and if it annoyed me enough, I might want to avoid that person. I wouldn’t find it offensive or disrespectful, though, unless the person insulted me in the course of presenting his views.</p>

31

<p>My reading is this:</p>

<p>You told this person that you were offended by her behavior and told her explicitly that it bothered you. Person did not. You have no obligation to be this person’s friend. Your only real issue is whether you should listen. If your former friend is offering an apology with a promise not to bother you, that’s one thing. If there is no offer, if it’s merely “history” then it sounds like you’re being invited to return to a relationship in which you’ll be told you’re going to hell. So you could try it and see if that happens or you could be explicit in your requirements. Maybe you don’t even need an apology - though that would be the Christian thing for your friend to do, wouldn’t it? </p>

<p>People tend to use their personal religious beliefs to excuse bad conduct. Being told you’re going to hell is offensive. Imposing personal religious beliefs is offensive when you’re told to stop and you do it anyway. </p>

<p>So putting aside the weird belief some people have that “religion” excuses rudeness, you know in your mind whether this person is likely to keep being offensive or not and you know in your mind whether talking about stopping it is worth doing or not. Some people might say you have an obligation, but that’s philosophy not the real world.</p>

32

<p>I’ve reread the OP’s description of her friend. Not sure how long ago this occurred, but if someone said to me

and did not stop when I politely asked them to, I would not consider them a friend. The OP respects her friends opinions, but is politely asking them to not be part of their conversation. If the friend doesnt accept that, then she isnt respecting the OPs wishes. There are other things that friends enjoy talking about, and IMO, the OP has the right to choose not to be preached to.</p>

33

<p>@bulletandpima: I guess I should reiterate that I don’t believe people are preaching when they make a casual remark of “God’s will” but I do take it offensively when that remark is addressed at something personal to me, especially when it’s along the lines: “the misfortune fell upon you because you are a sinner since you are not a believer”. I don’t think I’m asking W to change when I ask her to not preach her beliefs to me. I’m fine with converstions like “This Sunday at church we’re doing…” or “Our preacher did a really interesting sermon about…” But she always tried to explain every good event in my life as “God’s grace” and every bad event as “God’s punishment”. She constantly passed judgments on me based on her moral code from her religion. So even though we did have a lot of things in common, her constant harping just really got to me. Especially in light of the fact that she did not try to “convert” any of our religious friends (who had faiths besides Christianity). She never disrespected their belief in their own god(s) but continually dissed me because I believed no God/gods. This fact is what always bothered me the most–she respected their religions but not my lack of a religion. </p>

<p>The other thing is I’m not sure the offer is an act of apology or even an honest desire to renew our friendship. And though some time has passed, I doubt she has changed much.</p>

34

<p>It sounds to me like the friendship wasn’t making you happy, and you were wise to move on. </p>

<p>Just because your friends continue a friendship with your ex friend doesn’t mean that you need to.</p>

35

<p>(caveat: I only read some of the responses, so I apologize if this has already been said)</p>

<p>Are you sure this person actually wants to renew your friendship, or do you think she has simply identified you as an unconverted heathen for whom it is her responsibility to “show the way”? I ask this because I had an acquaintance who belonged to a certain religion that was very focused on identifying the unconverted and proselytizing to them. (I am Jewish, and therefore became a prime target.) This person was constantly asking me to lunch and other activities, but was really focused on “educating” me. Her particular religion preached the idea of really targeting folks and bringing them into the fold, so to speak.</p>

<p>So, it may not really be a friendship this person is seeking…you may be sort of a conquest for her.</p>

36

<p>I have been there and done that and it was not fun or easy. My best friend from childhood converted to Baptism and joined an Evangelical church. Loonnnnngggg story short, she felt it to be her duty to convert me since she loved me. I am Jewish and this was simply ridiculous. I quoted her the commandment, Honor thy mother and thy father. Then terminated the relationship. I still miss her, but not the (years of) hyper religiousity with every expressed sentiment referring back to JC. I still miss how well we connected and how our lives tracked each others’ and the many long conversations and loving thoughtful caring until religion tore us apart. It has been a great loss in my life, but the friendship became toxic. I will not be threatened with eternal damnation by any person, and I am very aware that not too long ago there were neighbors who would kill neighbors on religious grounds. I am a confirmed secularist with my own deep and abiding and comforting spiritual life. I understand my friend’s point of view and see that it comes from her love for me but that does not make the friendship viable because every conversation devolves into what I “Should” do from her point of view in an area of my life that is sacred and private. Her way brings up fear in my heart and soul, and it has been now over a decade since we have talked. I still miss our friendship. But it got sick and died. So it goes.</p>

37

<p>^^^There are some people who genuinely view it as their responsibility to bring people to a religion that they believe is “true.” They honestly believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I can understand that desire – after all, if you really really believe that you’re friend is going to hell and that makes you unhappy, you’d want to try to convince your friend to change.</p>

<p>It doesn’t mean the friend has to like it, accept it, or put up with it, however.</p>

38

<p>I had a friend many years ago who said she wanted to read me a passage from her Bible that might help if the apocalypse came. I sat and listened because it meant something to her. That was fine. If she’d kept talking about salvation, I would not have remained her friend.</p>

39

<p>“maybe we all need to have at least one friend who will tell us what we don’t really want to hear.”</p>

<p>Tell us, yes. Not lecture, harangue, and threaten us on an ongoing basis. If I have a friend who’s a heroin addict, absolutely no purpose is served by lecturing her each day that heroin is bad and she could die. She knows that. No one has ever stopped using drugs (or converted to Christianity) because a “friend” reminded them for the hundredth time that they could die/go to hell. The only reason I would do that every day is to serve MY interests and satisfy my personal need to confirm my rightness and her wrongness. If I can’t shut up about it, I need to sever the relationship until she seeks help/sees the light.</p>

40

<p>I ended one friendship because my friend talked too much. She had so many other good qualities and I really tried for a long time to be friends. But in the end I realized I didn’t enjoy getting together with her, at that point I had enough friends I really had fun with.</p>

<p>Over the years I’ve seen her on occasion and nothing has changed, she talks all the time. At this point I can’t be friends with her, it isn’t a choice anymore. I just can’t put up with it.</p>