Should I take Calc-based AP Physics on top of IB physics?

Pre-College Topics International Baccalaureate (IB)
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Hi everyone!

I’m a junior currently taking the full IB diploma with HLs in Maths AA, Physics and Geography (didn’t want to crush myself with double science).

I was scrolling around on my dream school (one of my few reaches) MIT’s website, and it seems that the physics there will be calculus based. Since the IB physics course is algebra-based, should I take AP physics on-top of that to show preperation?

Isn’t it also a good opportunity to show my interest in physics by taking the extra AP course? (I haven’t seen any opportunities to compete in science during my time here at all)

Thank you!

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This is a duplication and will appear that way. If you have HL math aa, which should show achievement in math, and HL physics, you’re fine and well prepared.

You can look at the AP physics test to see if you could do well with the knowledge you have (and filling in a few gaps) and take it if you are worried about getting credit.

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A 7 on the IB exam gives credit for 8.01. To get the same credit for AP, one needs to get a 5 on both mech and E&M. No brownie points are awarded for taking both AP and IB exams, but taking both courses will impress nobody.

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I have a slightly different answer. Depending on where you look, you might actually get different credit for AP Physics C exams than IB Physics.

Like at Pitt, say, which I am using just because I know it has a handy chart:

For IB Physics you can get credit for Physics 0110 with a 5, or both 110 and 111 with a 6 or 7. With 4/5 on AP Physics 1 & 2 you can get 110, with 5s you can get 110 and 111. But then for a 5 on Physics C Mechanics, you can get credit for 174, the first part of their calc-based Physics sequence (not for E&M, though). That is a recognition that Physics C, unlike Physics 1 & 2, is in fact calc-based. And consistent with that view, Pitt treats IB Physics like AP Physics 1 & 2, not Physics C.

OK, so what is apparently happening at MIT is that unlikely Pitt, they will not give you any extra credit for Physics C. However, it appears you might be able to place into a calc-based Mechanics class. See descriptions here:

https://catalog.mit.edu/subjects/8/

I am specifically looking at 8.012 versus 8.01:

Elementary mechanics, presented in greater depth than in 8.01. Newton’s laws, concepts of momentum, energy, angular momentum, rigid body motion, and non-inertial systems. Uses elementary calculus freely; concurrent registration in a math subject more advanced than 18.01 is recommended. In addition to covering the theoretical subject matter, students complete a small experimental project of their own design. First-year students admitted via AP or Math Diagnostic for Physics Placement results.

It sounds to me like maybe APs would be one route to placement (although I am not sure if that means Physics C, Calc AB or BC, or some combination). If you did IBs, maybe you could do that Math Diagnostic for Physics Placement.

Still, I am not at all sure taking Physics C would not at least be better preparation if you were interested in doing the 8.012 course instead of 8.01 (or skipping 8.01). Same deal potentially with 8.022 versus 8.02, the E&M courses.

Anyway, if you are really interested in MIT specifically, you might actually reach out to someone at MIT to ask this question.

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Thanks for all of your repsonses! I understand it better now, so I think I’ll hold off on taking any APs. This is my first post here, so thank you for being very helpful and kind.

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If you would like to think about your academic path conceptually, then it may be worth considering that calculus represents what might be regarded as the natural language of physics. Therefore, if you would like to understand physics, you will need to study calculus-based physics at some point. However, I wouldn’t recommend that you rush this progression for strategic reasons (such as how it might make you appear to college admission commtitees).

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It’s not worth doing both IB and AP C Physics. You’d already spend 4 semesters on the IB class and two more semesters for both AP classes.

If you are interested in taking more physics in college you’ll probably need to take 8.01 equivalent regardless, even if you would get credit for it from the IB HL score. Before taking the introductory Physics courses it would serve you better to build a solid foundation in math at least through multivariable, linear algebra and possibly differential equations.

If you’re interested in a major where you only need to take one general physics course, the IB course is good enough.

Don’t be too focused on why would impress admission committee, think more about what your interests are and what kind of coursework align with and support those interests.

My advice for a high school student interested in Physics it to first take an introductory high school course and follow with the calculus based sequence. Dual enrollment over three semesters is the most rigorous, but it requires a heavy time investment in math prerequisites so you’re looking at about six one semester classes assuming you completed AP Calculus BC equivalent. AP Physics C is fine for mechanics, not very good for electromagnetism and you wouldn’t get credit for EM anyways. IB HL is more of a in depth introductory course but in no way a substitute for calculus based classes regardless of what the equivalence sheets say.

IB is more geared to give you a broad general education and usually it’s not flexible enough to go deep in an area of interest. If you’re shooting for MIT and similar colleges consider taking advanced classes (AP, HL or DE) in Chemistry, Biology and Computer Science. Taking a single science class at HL level is unlikely to make anyone competitive for MIT.

This link provides good advice on what classes to take while in high school.

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Calculus-based physics at most universities does not require that much math before starting the sequence. Typical prerequisites and corequisites:

Physics course Math prerequisite Math corequisite
Physics 1 including mechanics Calculus 1 Calculus 2
Physics 2 including E&M Calculus 2 Calculus 3 (multivariable)

(A high enough score on IB Math AA HL is often considered equivalent to calculus 1, sometimes calculus 2.)

However, it may be advantageous to be one more semester advanced in math than the above, in order to have calculus 3 completed before taking the physics course with E&M. But it is not necessarily to have calculus 3, linear algebra, or differential equations before taking the first calculus-based physics course, although if you want to take those while in high school due to interest in math, that is not a problem.

Note: there are few outliers like Caltech, Harvey Mudd, and MIT where the frosh math sequence is different from the above.

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OP is not clear in what his goal is, ie interested in pursuing a physics major, or interested in MIT in general and inquiring if the additional AP physics will improve his chances.

For calculus based physics as a general major requirement for a variety of science and engineering majors you’d only need the calculus prerequisite mentioned above.

My advice for the extra math preparation is for someone set on majoring in physics, who may take harder classes like for example Physics 7 series at UC Berkeley or 8.012 at MIT. I’m aware that the prerequisite is Calculus 1 for Mechanics, but I’d argue that having taken linear algebra and multivariable will be tremendously helpful even if it’s as self study or a less rigorous community college class.

If the OP is broadly interested in stem at the likes of MIT, Caltech, Harvey Mudd, he’s likely better off taking AP Chemistry or Computer Science than doubling down on Physics. One can look at the typical first year course of study at these universities and figure out what to do in preparation. For example if you have to take Chemistry in first year at Caltech, it’s not a good idea to do it without having taken some kind of chemistry in high school.

OP mentioned that doubling in science would be crushing, that’s a bit of a red flag for being a good fit for his dream school, MIT.

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The harder introductory physics sequence at UCB is now the 5 series, formerly the honors 7 series but with the order of topics rearranged to be more optimal for physics majors (versus engineering majors). Math prerequisites are still the same.

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I don’t claim to be a physics/math expert—on the contrary—but based on my kids’ experience, it’s AP Physics C Mechanics that is duplicative of AP Physics 1; AP Physics C E&M covers different terrain.

So if OP wanted to take more physics senior year, AP Physics C E&M could be a good option. One of my kids took this progression (AP Physics 1 junior year, AP Physics C E&M senior year); he’s not a STEM kid but really liked AP Physics 1, needed a science senior year, and wasn’t particularly interested in other sciences. So his teacher advised him to take E&M (rather than Mechanics).

It seems like OP is less interested in college credit and more interested in showing preparation/interest in physics to highly selective colleges. My understanding is that E&M is considered one of the most difficult AP classes, so I think it checks that box.

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Oh gosh, it seems I was unclear with my intentions. I am deeply interested in physics and no matter where I go that’s what I’d like to pursue. The reason I specified MIT is just because it seems like a school where I would fit in with the culture and all that. I have looked very deeply into MIT’s admissions website on what they look for in a student.

Regardless, I appreciate your comment, and it’s helped me somewhat. Since I’m taking AA HL I will come across calculus eventually and Maths is one of my strongest subjects so I’m not exactly shivering in my boots. I love physics most, which is why I don’t take chem or bio, but there are certain topics in those areas that interest me. I’m not scared of taking two sciences, I’m confident in my abilities (which I can back up with evidence as we’re halfway through grade 11 already), I just want to maintain a balanced schedule.

I was simply wondering if taking any extra AP classes would provide a way for me to deepen my exploration into something I love, is the core of my post. It seems that AP would be far too rigorous and heavy to provide a light introduction into the other sciences, but I think your perspective is important here anyways.

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Sorry that my grammar was so bad in this reply, I was in a rush haha, but hopefully my point is understandable.

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If your interested in Physics at MIT, try to load up on math and sciences. The General institute requirements are two math (up to multivariable), two physics (classical), one chemistry and one biology. You want to show that you can handle those classes, you are fine with the math and physics you take. Maybe you have taken chemistry and biology in the first two years, ideally at the AP level, if not consider taking them with priority for Chemistry, it will be helpful for the physics.

Since you just started the IB program this year and your school seem to also offer AP classes, I’m curious why you went the IB route. Given that you’re aiming for physics at MIT, the AP classes might be a better fit as more rigorous in math and science and you have more flexibility on course selection, presumably not having to take foreign language and the IB extras like TOK etc and taking on more stem coursework.

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Ah, my school doesn’t offer AP classes so this is the IB is the only program I could have taken.

Unfortunately, I HAVE taken Chem and Bio in the last 2 years but those courses were not at the AP level. Is that very bad and should I focus on somehow developing that knowledge? I’ve been told a lot that if I’m trying to major in physics I don’t have to take 2 sciences but I guess I should have been more careful since I already knew that MIT likes students who are interested in all things science. But oh well, it’s not like my life is over if I don’t go there.

Thank you for all your input so far Poseidon.

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Our high school has a full IB option and also has AP classes. Last year, a full IB student was accepted to MIT for physics. Based on the schedule, I’m sure he didn’t also take AP Physics and just took the IB HL classes. He would have had Bio and chem in 9th and 10th grades and those would not be AP either. Perhaps he had AP Chem in 12th, but my guess is no. So, it is possible and you should apply if you’d like to attend there. Who knows.

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The good part is that at least you took chemistry and biology. Taking Geography won’t help you much, because it doesn’t prepare you for your major or career, but at the same time it’s not the end of the world. The advice you’re getting is what you can do to be better prepared for your future career.

Regarding what your school offers, how were you planning to take AP Physics you mentioned in the original post if you only have access to IB classes? If it were self study and sitting for the exam, don’t bother with that. Take actual classes at your school or DE if the options are limited and you can fit them in your schedule.

In your senior year see if you can take either Chemistry or Computer Science. Make the decision based on what interests you more. There are branches of Physics where either would be helpful, especially if you want to get some undergraduate research experience.

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Ah, well the IB diploma requires us to take an “individuals and societies” course as part of our diploma (so basically a humanities). And unfortunately, I will not be able to take another science in senior year, unless I change my music course to a second science.

However, I am fully aware that MIT recruits students who show the deepest of intellects and the strongest of passions, and they also appreciate students who can handle humanities. So on one hand, I am fully aware of the limitations posed by my choice of courses, yet on the other, I don’t think that I will drop music, since it is very true that I am more interested in learning about different types of music and producing music than chemistry and computer science. (even though I really really really do want to take computer science and chemistry, I’m gonna try applying sidewats)

I’m going to see if there’s any possible way for me to learn chemistry or computer science outside of school, and then gain certification or evidence of my learning, so good luck to me. If you know any resources that could help with this I would greatly appreciate you sharing them!

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MIT doesn’t want you to add a sprinkle of this and that - it knows what the IBD is and how it works. Do it fully and well.
If you want to be competitive, you will need to get A (6) in several subjects and definitely A (7: ntl/intl distinction) in math&physics - 38-39 without CAS/EE etc. An interesting EE can also be of use. Then, have distinctive ECs.

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