I don’t understand why you want to remove the score? First, they’ve already seen it and evaluated her app with it. Second, IMO it’s extremely unlikely that the score was important in the decision to defer. It was completely reasonable of the counselor to recommend sending a score that is 500 points above her school’s average.
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Won’t she be reassessed brand new in RD? In essence, the student is now an RD app and likely has something in the portal to go TO.
I suggested removing the score because it’s 70 points below the 25th percentile.
I understand the logic vs. the student’s school but 70 points is not insignificant, so that could be too low for the school to be willing to admit. In other words, maybe it won’t hurt, but I can’t see it helping.
That’s my thought process anyway.
The Bowdoin website says one can change their test optional decision until the application deadline. So it doesn’t seem like OP’s D can change it now.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. Admissions will read deferred apps again. All the notes from the prior app reading(s) will be there. It’s not a clean slate if that’s what you are saying.
Ok. That’s your opinion.
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Yes, my opinion as I noted. I also noted this in early posts so I’m consistent 
None of us are AO’s at Bowdoin.
My understanding, correct me if I’m wrong, the student is deferred to regular admission which has a deadline of Jan 5th so their app should be open until then. Also, I put the link for deferral above - in my first post today.
Finally, if OP sees this, they have an admissions drop in for q&a Thursday night. Perhaps your student can join. I bet there will be a lot of deferred students on there with many relevant questions. And test scores and LOCIs will come up and if not, she can ask !!
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Thank you all so much! I don’t know if my daughter’s schedule will allow her to join the virtual session this Thursday but maybe she can find another one. I’ll also let her know maybe to check her portal to see if there is a way to remove the test score? Although it’s unclear what impact the score may have had ED or will have RD? I really appreciate all your thoughts on this. I think my daughter is handling the deferral pretty well. I’m the one who’s disappointed because our family life has been chaotic since mid November and I was just hoping for a tiny bit of peace in this one area for her. But she’s learning great lessons and I’m sure in the end she’ll end up where she should. Thank you all.
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It doesn’t look like there’s another session - her questions are simple - to ask if an LOCI is desired or necessary. For WL, yes. Not sure if deferral but others say yes. Their website simply puts the link I put earlier which is their portal sign in.
And she can ask for guidance on test - maybe they’ll tell her. 25% are 1470 and/or below so there are many submitting below.
I hope she can make the session or maybe you can listen for her. I’m guessing it will help calm the nerves.
But if it doesn’t work out, certainly a call with an admission staff is in order for your own 1:1 q&a..
It’s great she knows it’s the clear #1 so good thoughts - but of course she does need a #2 and 3 in case. The truth is, if she gets in, you won’t know why. Of course it doesn’t matter. If she doesn’t get in, you won’t know why. We all want to know why but never are told.
She went with her gut (and counselors gut) and aubmitted. Mine did at Rice, one point below the 25th. She was proud of her 32. Didn’t get in. Why ? No idea. As long as you have the next in line good to go, she’ll be fine.
Best of luck in RD.
The key statistic on Bowdoin’s standardized test scores is that 52% submitted no standardized test scores - either SAT or ACT.
A second key statistic is that 1470 is at the 25th percentile only of the 32% of the freshman class who actually submitted SAT scores.
1400 is a very, very high score. It’s at the 97th percentile. 1470 is at the 99th percentile. Yes, it is higher. But is the difference significant?
To answer that question, we have to ask, “To whom?”
Bowdoin is the party “to whom” in this situation. Bowdoin tells us that standardized test scores are not an important consideration to them in admissions decisions. They prove it by admitting the majority of their freshman class without any test scores. They well know - just as we do - that those students submitting without test scores are doing so because they themselves considered their test scores to be low enough to hurt their chances of admission.
Why submit the test scores?
First, your high school guidance counselor has already told you that these test scores are exceptional for your high school. Colleges like Bowdoin do look at high school gpa in the context of where it was earned. If your high school has a less competitive student body, this can raise questions in the minds of the admissions committee about how a graduate of this school will fare amongst Bowdoin’s very competitive student body. What can you do to reassure them? Show them the exceptional 1400 SAT score, which tells them that she is exceptional and should not be judged by her high school peer group. Follow the advice of your high school guidance counselor who knows what s/he is talking about.
Second, the SAT test score is not a criterion for admissions. Bowdoin tells us this. It is supplementary information to the rest of your child’s application packet to help them better understand your daughter’s academic aptitude. Why leave them to guess or assume that she got a 1200? Remove the doubt and let them know that she got a 1400, which is a great score and is likely better that all or almost all of those who did not submit. In the full context of 52% not submitting but still being accepted, 1400 is more like the 50th percentile of the current freshman class, not the low score that you imagine it to be.
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This is exactly correct.
I’m repeating myself from above but I would be shocked if OP’s D’s test score was the reason for a deferral over an acceptance. That is just not how Bowdoin works. It’s not how many schools work. I would counsel this student to not remove the score from consideration (if Bowdoin even allows that.) I certainly wouldn’t do it without talking again with the counselor.
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@NYTOTX I appreciate your analysis from the others and while I personally don’t agree, one thing you noted above scares me.
“My daughter had to take a screenshot of Bowdoin’s requirements to show her and convince her to send the report card! So our high school’s guidance office is very unfamiliar with Bowdoin (and SLAC in general),”
The other posters may be right (to submit) or I may be (to not). Given 25% of those who submit are under 1470, they could be 1450 or could be 1200. At the same time, they could also be hooked kids.
Personally, I wouldn’t assume guidance counselors always know. They are not familiar with all situations. Maybe you can cold call a guidance counselor at a 2nd or third school for other opinions. Some might be glad to take 3 minutes to answer you.
Obviously, this is all subjective but I saw it in our wealthy kid’s school district - the counselors are over manned and knew mostly about the nuances of the state schools.
I hope your student makes the open admission hours session tonight. If Bowdoin is that important, it’d be great for them to ask questions and hear other questions asked - because I’m guessing there’s a lot of nervous deferrals with similar questions, perhaps even this one - to submit or not.
All we know - is assuming Bowdoin’s CDS is accurate is:
92% of test submitters (SAT) who enrolled had a 700 in English and 93% had at least a 700 in math. We can also see 95% had a 1400+, assuming by far most on the +.
Who are the other 5%? Is it athletes? Is it FGLI or lower income kids? Your student is neither if I understand but goes to a lower income school - and it sounds like doesn’t normally produce top school kids. So I wouldn’t assume the counselor necessarily knows about a Bowdoin or similar types or that Bowdoin will see you as hooked.
I think there’s a right answer - but it may be submittal or it may not be and I don’t know that anyone knows which is right. But 70 points, to me, is significant. Obviously, others disagree.
If your students gets in or doesn’t get in, we’ll never know the why.
So, of course, if they want to submit or leave submitted, they should. It should be their call. But I think an argument can be made against - based on the data they provide and others above think similar - but again, none of us truly know how it willimpact a final decision.
One last thing -last year only 1/7 of ED admits were accepted so statistically most will not be and typically at schools like this, those will be stellar students so tons of brilliance will get rejected (which yours wasn’t). I’m not sure TX helps as they had 62, so already over three percent of all students from there. I couldn’t find FGLI or low income type stats but with 39% of students of color, I’m going to assume based on national stats they are overweighted in the TO camp but I would ask on the open call.
This really is a unique sociological situation.
Best of luck in whatever the student decides to do.
nvm
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A reminder that posts should be directed to the OP.
If you find yourself repeating your talking points to another user, please take it to PM.
Further posts that are debating will be deleted without comment.
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Bowdoin has already made an assessment of her academic credentials and the good news is that DD was deferred. If they thought she couldn’t perform at a very high level, they would have rejected her. My hunch is that as a New England SLAC, Bowdoin wants to see how she stacks up against other applicants from Texas after January. They are traditionally very aware of the geographic make-up of their incoming classes.
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It’s the rationale offered in the virtual information session that is compelling: if her score is relatively high within the context of her high school, submit.
With a 900 average at her high school, her score is massively high within the context of her school. It should alleviate any doubts about her high class rank being just the result of weak competition.
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I don’t think it does that; the average SAT speaks to the level of competition. But I agree it was right to report because it is so much higher than the average.
While everyone here is answering OP’s original question of whether the SAT score resulted in a deferral rather than acceptance, I think the OP should consider the flip side: your daughter’s SAT score could just as likely have been the reason for deferral rather than outright rejection.
It sounds like she is coming from a school that is not known to Bowdoin, and the SAT score is a well known entity, unlike the rigor of her classes or the grading in her school. In my understanding, this is one of the reasons that Dartmouth brought back tests-required: students from low-score schools were going TO because they didn’t realize that scores higher than their peers would help them.
We’ll never know the reasons for admissions decisions. But I certainly think that if she’s made it this far in the process with a test score, she should leave that score in for the remainder.
Good luck!
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Great point!
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Thank you all so much! These are all compelling arguments for/against submitting her score at a test optional school. She did sign up for the Bowdoin meeting tonight! So she’ll find out what they say. But she said it doesn’t look like there’s an option to remove her score and she’s fine with leaving it as is. But it has made her more cautious about submitting it to other schools RD. Although again, she doesn’t necessarily believe that it’s what got her deferred rather than accepted. And I love the point about how it actually might have gotten her deferred rather than rejected! I’ll relay that point to her later today.
She still loves Bowdoin! And the other guidance counselor at her high school said she would reach out to Bowdoin to see what they would accept— a letter of continued interest, a follow up counselor letter, etc. but with just one counselor now for over 550 kids, she’s overwhelmed and unlikely to get any answers before the winter break. So hopefully my daughter can get those answers at the meeting tonight.
This is an incredible community. Thank you all for taking the time to write such thoughtful, well-argued responses.
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As she moves forward and is making the decision whether to include her score, keep in mind that most important statistic is the percent I’d applicants submitting standardized test scores. It’s a world of difference to be below the 25th percentile at a school where 80-90% or more of applicants submitted scores vs a school where the majority did not, maybe 30-40% or less.
I realize that she’s shooting for highly selective schools, but I can imagine very few schools of this type who do holistic admissions where simply having a 1400 would keep anyone out. It makes no sense for them to exclude someone for whom everything else that they want to see lines up . . . but then they see that 1400 and decide in the negative. It especially makes no sense when they are admitting others who present no score and very likely scored lower than she did. It would be one thing if her score were 1100 or 1200 and it raised doubts about whether she could do the work and keep up with the competition. But 1400 is a superb score and is nothing to apologize for.
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Its great that she will have the opportunity to talk to (hopefully) admissions officers from Bowdoin (and not just some local grads, if there are any in your area). In addition to her asking the question to the AO, I would encourage you to have her have some other poignant, specific questions about Bowdoin ready to ask, so she (a) makes a positive impression on the AO and (b) they understand how strongly she feels about attending. Especially at small schools like Bowdoin, the AO’s can speak up for a student, explain the situation, note her application file, etc.
As an aside (and this still makes me smile many years later) one of my s’s had a lovely chat with the regional AO from a well known NE school when that AO visited his school for a college fair. Several weeks (at least) or so later we were doing college visits and sitting in the very crowded waiting room at that school waiting for the start of their dog and pony show. That AO happened to walk through, stopped and greeted my s by name, saying that she was so pleased to see him there! You should have seen the looks he got by the others in the waiting area! He didn’t end up applying there so we will never know if that mattered, but it sure couldn’t hurt! Have your daughter be memorable!
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