<p>Expect the possibility of an extra semester or 2.</p>
<p>My kids aren’t able to register for all the classes they would need to graduate in 8 semesters. They have to take what’s offered and are limited to 12 credits until a later date after everyone gets their 12. They may or many not get what they need.</p>
<p>On top of that there can be additional classes to take that aren’t required but make the degree more valuable. For example, taking additional language classes are not required but very valuable if you are getting a degree in social work, education, or pre-med. My son has added computer programming classes because he knows it will help him land a job in his field, even though it’s not part of his degree. I think it’s better to graduate with skills beyond the basic degree. It’s nearly impossible to go back to a 4-year college and pick up a class or 2 once you have graduated.</p>
<p>Since most college majors require about one third to one half of one’s schedule for major requirements, why couldn’t they register for their major requirements in the first 12 credits each semester? Of course, they may not get their preferred choices for breadth courses, but there is a lot more flexibility in choosing courses there than in major requirements.</p>
<p>Yes, some majors (e.g. engineering, music, architecture, etc.) may require more, but these are often limited in enrollment by requiring admission to the major, not just the school.</p>
<p>“It’s true our children have to learn much for themselves, but you might as well buy a racehorse, as attend a lower ranked law school.” </p>
<p>Emerald, I so disagree with this. I know many, many attorneys who went to local law schools that are absolutely not ranked high at all who are very successful. The key is that you have to do very well in law school, in order to get the clerkships and offers–they are very much dependent on your class rank. Most of the practicing attorneys in any area are local folk. They went to the local law schools, they know each other, and many do very well indeed. Where the problem occurs is when someone who is not sure what s/he wants to do decides to apply to law schools and get into one, and pursues that direction without understanding what is important and how competitive it is. Quite true that if you are not going to get good grades in law school,and if you are not gung ho about being an attorney, you are likely not to find a job. Too many kids go to law school with the belief that a job will be sitting there waiting for them upon completion of the degree and passing the bar. Nope. You gotta go for it, and the higher your grade, the better your chances. A lot of local attornies and even judges are on the faculties of these local law schools and will cherry pick the top kids for clerkships and other positions that will give them a jump start in law.</p>
<p>Where it becomes very difficult is if you go to law school outside of where you want to practice. In such cases, if you don’t go to a top law school, finding a job elsewhere can be very difficult and nigh impossible.</p>
<p>My friend’s DD is an attorney at a top law firm in a major city. She went to law school in that city, did very well and got two clerkships with two judges after completing her studies. She had offers up the whazooie with those clerkships. She would like to move “home” back to where family is–she went to law school where her SO was at that time. She is worth zip in other cities because her knowledge and contacts with the judges are not worth beans,and the most of the lawyers there have other priorities in terms of connections locally to have to look at someone with no connections at all.</p>
<p>It might depend on the course, and the specific 4-year college.</p>
<p>Common freshman and sophomore level courses are easily found at open admission community colleges, so these are usually not a problem, unless one is trying to fulfill pre-med requirements (since medical schools frown on taking all of your pre-med courses at community colleges, creating a market for post-bac pre-med programs at 4-year colleges).</p>
<p>Junior and senior level courses do need to be taken at a 4-year college, so one may need to go through some sort of admissions process to take them. Not all 4-year colleges are admission-friendly to non-degree students, particularly those who already have bachelor’s degrees. Extension type programs may allow enrollment only on a space-available basis.</p>
<p>My experience with such is limited to public u’s, but most will let you take courses on a non-matriculated basis as long as there is space available. And why wouldn’t they - paying customers are paying customers.</p>
<p>Yes, letting non-degree students pay to take courses where there is space available (that would otherwise be wasted) makes sense from the school’s point of view. However, from the student’s point of view, that means that popular courses that are always completely full are effectively not available through this method.</p>
<p>I said I will not pay for more than four years worth, unless. The degree requires more than four years, such as an engineering degree would. If they need remedial courses, that is their problem and they need to pay for those themselves. My only exception to that would be if someone had a disability that caused them to need remediation. But for the child who did not take a proper college prep course load, or just didn’t work hard enough in college, the answer is no, I won’t pay for remediation.</p>
<p>4 year grad rates were very high on our list of considerations (maybe not so much on DD’s, but we melded the lists together). A lot of this has to do with “class availability” (no fault of the student) and larger State U’s just couldn’t compete. You can’t just focus on the sticker price; for us, many school cost comparison’s were made 4 years vs. 5 years. Any school with a 4 year grad rate under 50%? we defaulted to a 5 year total COA.</p>
<p>We also ruled out schools with Freshman retention rates below 80%, since transferring usually leads to delay and increased costs.</p>
<p>Obviously, everyone spends their money differently, and that is perhaps why the OP started this thread to ask the question. (For my kids, being on need-based aid, hanging around to take additional classes of value, was not an option.)</p>
<p>And of course, “value” is in the eye of the beholder (and parent payor). One beauty of college is the hundreds of courses offered in subjects that high schoolers have never even heard of. All of which could be valuable. But that IS the point: make some decisions and move forward, but get out in four, like thousands of other students. </p>
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<p>But I gotta say, that staying longer to take language classes is not a good plan for a premed – just too many students will take language classes AND graduate in 4. And if a pre-education or social work major can’t find time in his/her schedule to take a couple of language electives…of course, basic language classes are available at every local judo.</p>
<p>No we did not budget for more than 4 years of college and S1 finished in four and S2 will finish one semester early at college they chose.N The kids knew that was important (unless they wanted to fund part of their college) and worked closely with their adviser to make sure it happened. Neither had to declare their major until sophomore year. S1 started down one path and switched sophomore year, S2 pretty much stuck with the path he had envisioned. I paid no attention to the “grad rates” as the factors that contribute to graduation rates are wide and varied. I also paid no attention to retention rates as, again, those reasons are wide and varied. In my opinion neither picked the most “challenging” college where they were accepted, but again that, to me, was not as important as finishing the degree as over the long haul finishing the degree is far more important than the name on the diploma. But I know I’m in the minority on some of these factors.</p>
<p>Probably…but you could drive yourself insane trying to make a statistically analytic decision only about something that has a huge emotional component :-)</p>
<p>I don’t get the “huge emotional component” statement either… how does one rationally develop this for a place they’ve maybe only seen once or twice?</p>
<p>There were preferences based on that short exposure for sure, and they were a factor. But hardly “huge”</p>
<p>I believe that all decisions have some emotional component. Even when I was involved at work with implementing Kepner Tregoe which supposedly removes the emotional component I still think people make decisions with some element of emotion. I think it’s “huge” because it lacks definition. People tend to support their decisions, it’s human nature, which predisposes the kids to “stick with it” because it is, in many respects, it is the first “real” big decision they make as young adults.</p>
<p>I think its important to be aware of the emotional influence that can wreak havoc on “big” decisions (lacking definition). Which is why I’m so comfortable with “probabilities and trends”</p>
<p>Kepner Tregoe? bleck! - I was forced to demonstrate that ridiculously subjective rating scale masquerading as quantitative analysis. Fortunately I was able to witness its birth and demise at my previous organization, before leaving.</p>
<p>Not likely (since one of the largest components of low grad rate is family income). A public college may have a “low” grad rate (however defined) overall, but when one parses the income of the families, one will find that many students from good schools (again, however defined), matriculate into college with lotsa AP/IB credits, for which public U’s are extremely generous.</p>
<p>Why not pay? If you have your retirement funded, are living your dream and have discretionary income, why not support your child if they are using your money wisely?<br>
I realize the above may only apply to a few, but I think there are two different arguments going on here. If your child is goofing off, fickle or lazy, I agree with not supporting them. If your child is successful and doing well at university, why not help them through grad school? I haven’t promised my D. anything, but if I can afford it, I will support interesting summer programs that further her career and will help her to make grad school an easier experience, even if fully funded with this caveat: her education needs to lead to her financial independence. If you feel your child is unfocused, caviler about your money or otherwise unworthy of support after 4 years I agree there is no “obligation” to support them. But…if they are doing everything “right” why make them wait until you die to get an inheritance? What better use of my money than my child’s education? However, I will be the first to stop payments if she neglects her obligation to study and do well.</p>
<p>@bluebayou - I don’t understand the point you are trying to make. 4 year graduation rates are published for every school, public and private, in the USNWR rankings. There are some exceptional 4 year graduation rates from public universities and colleges.</p>
<p>And if I’m getting at least something from your post? Public U’s (at least the ones we were interested in) are the worst for recognizing AP/IB credits.</p>