Should she continue voice lessons?

vicariousparent · May 30, 2009, 2:07am

My daugher is a junior in high school who loves to sing (classical solo and choir). She has taken private voice lessons once a week for about 3 years and her voice is developing nicely. She is a soprano. Fortunately she has always had an excellent teacher and by all accounts she has healthy singing technique. She is the best singer in the school choir, she qualified for All State, and also sings with adults in a nice church choir on special occasions where they sing some fairly complex pieces (Bach, Handel). She attended the Interlochen summer camp for voice a couple of summers ago, loved it, and her voice teacher there also noted that she was talented and had good training. So far so good.

The problem, if it can be called a problem, is that she is also a very strong academic student. She takes the most rigorous curriculum, works hard to do well, and wants to go to some top college where she wants to get a broad based liberal arts education. She may end up being a music minor but she is not likely to be a music major.

I know this is not unusual- there are plenty of academically strong students who are also avid musicians. But the thing is she also has other extra-curricular interests that take up a lot of her time. Lately, she has been heavily involved in policy debate, she is on her school’s varsity debate team, which involves traveling to national tournaments and spending many days away from home, missing a lot of school, and then scrambling to make-up lost ground in class. She loves debate- it is currently her top extracurricular interest. She is going to attend an intensive 4-week debate camp this summer where she will work from 8am to 5.30pm every day. Another interest is creative writing- her dream job would be to be a successful writer, maybe a journalist. She is also going to a 2-week creative writing camp this summer. No music camp.

The result of all this is that she doesn’t have much time or energy left to practice her singing. There are many weeks when she doesn’t practice at all between lessons. Despite this she seems to make progress from one lesson to the next. Slow progress, but progress, and her teacher is quite happy. Actually, the teacher is very happy, probably thinks that my D wants to be a performance major in college- possibly an opera singer. But my daughter is pretty clear at this point in time- while she would love to be able to sing opera, she has no plans to actually work towards that goal- she wants to go through an academic undergrad education, and will probably end up in a non-musical profession. She does not want the life of an opera singer. At the same time, she always wants to be in a choir, preferably a really good auditioned choir. She wants to do this in college and beyond, for the rest of her life if possible. In fact, even though she spends more time doing debate now, she says she is more likely to continue singing in college than she is likely to continue debate. Go figure.

So here comes the question- Should she keep taking voice lessons? If yes, how long? Or should she quit? I don’t mind paying for the lessons, we are fortunate to have money. My daughter herself really wants to continue the lessons. She really enjoys them and feels she is improving. But is this all just a waste of everyone’s time?

I am really hoping to get some honest advice from the wise musicians and parents of musicians here. Thanks.

lorelei2702 · May 30, 2009, 7:28am

If she enjoys the lessons, the teacher is satisfied with the work she is doing, you can afford the lessons, by all means she should continue studying voice. At this age, some of it is maintenance, encouraging good hygiene, keeping the voice healthy as the body finishes maturing (even though she probably looks fully grown, internally she is not yet there, coordination of muscular-skeletal function is on-going). It is very easy to get out of balance vocally…a cold, an excited celebration with vocal exuberance (screaming and yelling), medications, etc. The lessons can protect her from going astray. She can vocalize in the shower, listen to good singers and music as part of her general education and musicianship. There are lots of activities which provide an element of the practice needed for vocal study. She might want to be a bit blunter with her teacher about her plans, always the fair thing to do…teachers feel confused and sometimes betrayed if they are out of the loop. Good luck.

Singersmom07 · May 30, 2009, 8:26am

lorelei2702 is right about discussing frankly with the voice teacher. DD’s HS voice teacher had a many frank conversations with DD letting her know that his focus was on professionals (he only had 2 HS students) and if she was not auditioning for music admissions her senior year she would need to find another teacher. If she was, then he was there to guide her through the process. Since the process was intense he needed to know her commitment to it.

There were other good teachers in the area that took “hobby” students that have gone on to other degree programs and kept singing in their lives. He just wasn’t one of them. 
Each teacher has their own take on this. Many believe that the undergraduate degree is not important, voices mature so much later that the choice in not important at the undergrad level. But your DD’s teacher deserves to know where your DD stands. Sometimes the students just want to please their well loved teacher and do not want to disappoint or risk loosing the teacher. It will come out in the fall, though, when your DD is not preparing audition material. It could cause a lot of hard feelings at that point.

OperaDad · May 30, 2009, 8:55am

My son’s singing was his ticket into Harvard. It was also his guaranteed admission to the state’s flagship university. And, he doesn’t have to major in music at either school. He just needs to be in their choir.

At a minimum, singing will diversify/round out the student in the applications process (she is not just a book worm). It will mean that it is one thing less that she can do, but my son was able to do sports, play another instrument, be in the school play, as well as sing. Think of it as one more EC that she likes to do, and not as a career option.

uskoolfish · May 30, 2009, 9:45am

D ended up as a VP major, although she was not sure until acceptances if that was what she would do. She applied to liberal arts programs with the thought that she may or may not major or double major with music and something else. (Brandeis, GW, Muhlenberg, American, Barnard and SUNY Binghamton.) I believe her vocal skills helped her win merit scholarships and she did not necessarily have to major in music to get them. Some were specific merit awards for music (15K per year from GW) and her only commitment was to do something in music for the school (Choir, shows, etc.) Other schools like Brandeis offered her an academic/ leadership merit award, but since she discussed her music in depth on her interview, I am sure it tipped the scale. Her music showed passion, commitment and leadership and combined with the fact that she was president of her school, helped her earn a $15k/per year scholarship at Brandeis and even more at American and Muhlenberg.

Colleges like to see that a kid sticks with something and has passion…even if they do not major in that area ultimately. In D’s case, I think they liked that she juggled strong academeics, leadership in several other areas and was creative and talented. (We sent all schools a portfolio of her art work, too.) She was accepted in all the schools she applied.

As long as your D still wants music lessons and you can afford them, I don’t understand why you need to question her pursuing them. D is now a VP major at NYU. Her senior year was crazy (5 AP’s, school pres, director of accapella group etc.) Although she took weekly voice lessons, sang in choir and was the lead in her school show, she NEVER practiced between voice lessons. No time at all. And in the end she was accepted at NYU and chose to pursue voice as a major. And she was still in a good place when she entered school because of her overall training.

I would not have predicted with certainty that she would be a vocal performance major, but in the end she was not ready to give up voice. She is not sure what she will do in the future, but knows that she is happy with her decision. This summer she continues to balance a bunch of things that can take her in different directions…a pr internship ( 2 x per week), an internship at a sublidiary of Sony Music that is involved in music/ tv/ film related projects (3 days a week), and she is doing shows at Hofstra University in July and August (1st real experience with theatre outside of high school shows and showcases at NYU.)

If music is part of who your D is, she should continue to enjoy it. NYU brought in several speakers who were former VP majors… Several are now lawyers and business execs and they spoke about how being a music major actually helped them get into grad school and gain careers. If our D’s are smart and talented it will come together for them.

thumper1 · May 30, 2009, 12:35pm

She should continue IF she wants to continue.

DD is an instrumentalist who is an engineering major. She started taking lessons privately in fourth grade and continues to take them now as a junior in college. She is NOT at all interested in being a music major, or music minor, but she loves her lessons and playing in the school orchestra. We knew (and she knew) that music would not be her primary focus in college or beyond very early on. BUT she WANTED to continue lessons, continue playing in ensembles, and the like. She managed to make it all work and that is what matters.

One thing I will say (being contrary to other posters). The Ivy League schools have a WEALTH of students who are extremely musically talented and/or had a large commitment to music in high school. Being in All State, or being the section leader in your high school ensemble is unlikely to make you a more attractive candidate to these schools.

DD plays an “endangered instrument”…one where everyone “thinks” that there is an edge for college. Believe me, her ability to play (very well) this instrument did not help her a LICK in the college application process. BUT they are mighty happy to have her in the school orchestra.

vicariousparent · May 30, 2009, 2:20pm

Thank you all for sharing your insights.

lorelei: You went right to the main point that I try to remind myself when I have doubts. Unlike a violinist, a singer is her own instrument and it is the only one she’ll ever get. I’m hoping that the voice lessons will continue to develop her instrument. She does do her ‘vocalises’ in the shower, especially when I remind her, especially on days just before her lessons or a performance . So here’s a follow-up question for you- at what age is it ‘safe’ for a singer to discontinue private lessons? Lets say she continues her lessons in senior year of school and goes on to college, where she sings in the choir and maybe an acapella group but does not go for a vocal performance major. Would you recommend voice lessons even at that stage? Could she then benefit from more occasional ‘tune-ups’, say once a month?

lorelei and singersmom07: Your suggestion is fair, perhaps we do need to be more blunt with the teacher and let her know what our D’s goals are. The thing is, her teacher is a bit unusual- she is a retired voice faculty from the local university, most of her students are older singers from college or beyond, some are voice teachers themselves, and she mainly helps them out with correcting their vocal technique. She is not unfamiliar with young singers, she just doesn’t seek them out. She is not particularly ambitious about sending students to conservatories- she has done it all in the past, and her students have gone on to do well, a few were singing at the Met (in smaller roles) in the last season. She is not doing it for the money, she is only doing it for the love. Her main expectation is that the student is good and really loves to sing, and my daughter exceeds those expectations. At the lesson, my daughter gives 100% effort and enthusiasm, and I know the teacher really enjoys teaching her. The teacher knows that my daughter has other priorities, but I think she figures it is still too early to tell for sure which way she will end up going.

OperaDad, my daughter would love to attend Harvard, she fell in love with the school after her visit in the Spring. The thing that did it for her was sitting in on 3 or 4 classes- they were just wonderful. The visit completely destroyed the image she had of an impersonal university that doesn’t care about its undergraduates. No surprise, she also loves Yale, which seems to have more going on for singers. Obviously, she is aiming very high, and I guess it won’t hurt that she has demonstrated interest and ability as a singer. However, as thumper1 says, I am not sure how much of a boost her singing will provide at such highly selective colleges. While she is a very good singer, she is certainly not a superstar, and we are under no illusion about how many ridiculously accomplished sopranos are out there. She is also young for her grade level, which means her voice is not as powerful. We are actually not sure if she should send in an arts supplement. The Yale admissions guidelines are quite forbidding: “Please consider sending musical materials only if your accomplishments are truly outstanding for a high school musician”. Also: “There are also cases in which too many submissions, or submissions that do not reflect a high level of talent, can actually work against a candidate.” Our plan for now is for her to work towards preparing a submission for the NFAA YoungArts competition (teacher and student are both excited about sending one in- even though her likelihood of becoming a finalist are remote, it gives them something to work for). Once that DVD has been prepared, we will try to get a neutral reviewer who can look/listen to the recording and tell us whether that would be positive, neutral, or negative in the admissions process.

The underlying reason for my query is that fall of senior year is going to be a rather hectic time as she navigates her APs, college applications, the school musical, and debate tournaments. I am concerned that she might end up spreading herself out really thin. I guess I’m trying to clarify what our/her goals are in continuing the lessons- and what those goals should be. Perhaps I should not worry too much, and keep in mind what unskoolfish said “If our D’s are smart and talented it will come together for them.”

Thanks again, and I look forward to more advice.

thumper1 · May 30, 2009, 2:36pm

I am a singer who did not major in music after freshman year of college. I’m a grown up (parent of two college students). Until VERY recently, I took voice lessons because I love doing so. I sing in a choir only very occasionally, sing in weddings occasionally, and appear in civic theater productions very occasionally. Still. I LOVE my voice lessons. I took them all the way through high school, and part of college. Then took them again when I graduated, and off and on (mostly ON).

I will tell you, I do think my voice training also helps me USE my voice better…less vocal abuse.

IBfootballer · May 30, 2009, 2:46pm

i have many friends who are involved heavily in ECs, school, and singing. The best singers among them simply join music groups with their friends (bands, a capella groups, musical theatre, etc), and manage to do very well for themselves (band gigs, awards). I suspect many will take up voice lessons again in college when they have more time, but I think an un-regimented means of doing that during HS is a very good option. Also, being in a band or musical group makes you look pretty cool on apps.

lorelei2702 · May 30, 2009, 4:06pm

If she is going to continue singing, it is a good idea to have a teacher, who may only function like the family physician with checkups, monitoring the vocalises (meds!), though perhaps more regularly. With singing, if you do not use it, you lose it, and when you try to come back you are more likely to do damage if you try to do things you used to be able to do when you are no longer in shape to do them…as with any athletic endeavor.

I teach singers who are having careers, launching careers, hoping for careers, sometimes professional singers with day jobs, singers doing auditions for various levels of education. One singer in particular comes to mind, a male in his early forties, wonderful tenor voice, lots of stage experience as an actor. I sent him to sing in a large choir which does traditional classical choral music and he absolutely loved it. He brought every piece to me and we went over the issues vocally, he gained confidence, avoided problems, and had a great time doing it, because he knew he could trust what he was doing. This summer he is singing in the opera chorus in a summer opera program, and with all of his stage experience, he is invaluable. Everything he is doing is going better because he can check-in with me about how to handle different vocal situations. He has a day job, and he has chosen not to continue the Broadway circuit of auditions and productions. He takes a lesson every other week, and that is fine, plenty for what he wants to do, which is to sing better and sing healthily. He could have been and done more as a singer, but this was his choice.

As for your daughter’s current teacher…from my ongoing experience as a teacher, some students are a joy and some prove to be draining and a burden. Teaching privately, I can choose who to teach and who to send elsewhere. If I enjoy a singer, their personality, their responsiveness, and I like their voice and their image of what they want their voice to do and be, it does not matter what their (professional) goals are, just that they want to understand their voice and become a better, healthier singer. My hunch is that your daughter’s teacher will appreciate completely that she has goals for her total education which are not narrow and limiting. Voice mature how they will, and no one can accurately predict how a teen-ager’s voice will evolve…it is a very wise decision to have options. The present level of maturity and size of her voice are appropriate and not predictive of what it will be. She must wait to see what happens as she matures and develops.

Good luck to the whole family…she is very fortunate to have options.

cartera45 · May 30, 2009, 8:31pm

I agree with Lorelei. If she wants to sing for many years to come, she should continue with lessons. Many of the kids who are just singing in bands, a cappella groups or even musical theater without the guidance of a voice teacher are doing damage to their voices. It may not show up for a while but it can shorten the length of time that they will be able to continue to sing. It is also really easy to pick up bad habits but difficult to lose them.

stringkeymom · June 4, 2009, 12:23am

I second/third Lorelei on this; I would also add that admissions officers like to see follow through, so continuing with private voice or instrumental study (like continuing foreign language or math classes) will be a positive line on her application.

musicprnt · June 4, 2009, 12:32pm

Leaving out the admissions issue, which may or may not be relevent, I would say that if your daughter still enjoys singing, the teacher won’t mind teaching her as a ‘non serious’ student, and you can afford it, why not? The love of music takes many paths, and this idea that the only one leads to a vocation is a false one, it can be something for her to enjoy and cherish down through the years as part of who she is. It doesn’t have to be ‘practical’, like "it might help get you admitted’, ‘you could use it to get paying gigs’, it could be simply she would love to sing an aria in the shower, or duet with a parrot companion:). One of the things I wish in this crazy society of ours we would get through is the idea that only things that ‘matter’ are worth pursuing. It is one thing to look at the realities of lets say being a composer, at the difficulties and poverty of such positions, and being realistic, but it is another to look at something like playing music or art or writing and assuming it has to be ‘for something tangible’…the intangibles, like joy or fun, can be worth as much as the tangibles (and I wonder if we stressed such things more, if we would have less people focused on the material things in life or creating Bernie Madoffs).

As far as her schedule next fall, maybe it will help her navigate those crazy times, maybe it will be a refreshing spot for her, you never know. If it gets to be too much, she could always slow down the lessons, maybe do them a few times a month rather then weekly, or if it gets to be too much, she could always stop them for a while then pick up after the school year winds down. If she isn’t heading for a definite path (like I want to work with X teacher at Y school, to get into singing as a career) then the timing doesn’t matter, and if her teacher enjoys teaching her simply for the joy of having a nice student she probably would be okay with that, it doesn’t sound like all she wants is the next potential Met opera soloist as a student:)

I would encourage her to continue. I wasn’t much of an musician but did play through the end of high school, and I kind of wish I had continued, especially now that I realize I actually loved/love music and was derailed by a not particularly friendly home environment early on (not that I would have gone the pro route in any event, I doubt I would be that good, Stanley Drucker would not have much to worry about with me!). Let it play out as it will, talk to her teacher in case there are expectations that might not be fulfilled, and let her find her path is my thought.

vicariousparent · June 8, 2009, 7:49pm

Thank you all for your thoughtful advice. We are definitely going to continue voice lessons. I agree with musicprnt’s post above- the joy of singing and of learning how to sing are reasons enough to continue.

musicprnt · June 11, 2009, 11:44am

Vicarious-

Good for you! One of the things that I don’t like about the culture around music in many people’s minds(specifically Classical music) is that there is this idea that somehow unless someone is ‘good enough’ to be a professional, it is a waste of time (or on the other hand, kids forced into it because it ‘looks good’ on a college resume, or at least the parents believe it does). Whether someone is planning to be a pro or an amateur on any level, the first step should simply be loving music enough to do it, and also realizing it brings a lot into people’s lives, those who play it and those who listen to it. (Worse to me is the kids who go into music looking to be a pro, who along the line have picked up serious proficiency but don’t seem to have a love for the music, rather it is a love for the idea of being a hotshot soloist and their playing shows that…but I digress).

In any event, I am glad, go for it!

Should she continue voice lessons?

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