I think the real world job market paradigm has been gradually shifting. For years the perspective was that a broad “liberal arts” education prepares people to be more adaptive to most jobs and that most employers would rather have someone who is well educated broadly over someone with specific hard skills that they can quickly develop on the job if they are sufficiently broad in their education. Obviously there were always very specific exceptions to this generalization. But this the classic “liberal arts” education model where in many cases the “major” is just an emphasis but the distribution/core requirements assure the person knows how to reason, research, write, manage a project, etc.
Honestly, these days I think it’s mostly about the internships during college. More than it used to be. I look at all my kids peers, and all the entry level people getting hired in the companies I have worked with and where they interned ended up mattering way more than either their degree or school.
The intersection of these two propositions (with which I both agree) is one of the things that sometimes concerns me when I see some of the conversations happening online.
At a high level, there are two ways of “solving” the first problem. One is to simply not pay so much for college you and possibly your family loads up on a lot of debt. The other is to plan out a high earnings career and associated major which you calculate will have a ROI that justifies the debt.
So suppose you are following the second path, and you start in college and . . . you don’t like your major. Maybe you are even struggling to do well with it. But you are still racking up the debts. So you are “stuck”–you have to keep going, or at most try to swap to something else you and your family see as sufficiently high ROI, because that debt has to be paid off. And that sort of path can lead to serious breakdowns, or at least really suboptimal college experiences.
Or more subtly–you are OK at the designated major, but there are other things you can see you would like more. Or maybe you are getting close to graduating, and there are possible next-step opportunities (postgrad programs, cool employment opportunities, and so on) you would like to explore. Some of those might actually lead to good things in the long run career-wise. But your options are constrained by this overriding imperative to get enough ROI to service your college debt.
To me, it is just really, really obvious you should do everything possible to “solve” this problem the first way–meaning avoid a lot of debt in the first place. That will maximize your ability to make educational choices and then early career choices that make the most sense for you. And in fact, even if you end up following the original planned path, it will mean you can get ahead on things like saving up for a home.
So to me, both parts of the “bad major”/“good major” framework are potentially problematic. The “bad major” part is problematic including when people simply are not aware of how that major could be consistent with all sorts of viable career paths. But the “good major” part is problematic including when families justify loading up on debt to start their kid off in a “good major” at an expensive college, given all the risks and restrictions that may involve in practice.
The ability to execute said point of view and generate an outcome
One could argue that one doesn’t need to attend college to be good at these three. One could also argue that a liberal arts education is the way to go or that deep technical skills are required to achieve these.
How you choose to be good at 1), 2) and 3) is a personal call.
To me the “and affordable” part of this is important.
If a student is going to take on quite a bit of debt to get a degree, then I think that they should have a good career plan that is both a good fit for them, and that provides a trustworthy way to pay off their debt. Perhaps the most obvious example of this is someone who takes on a lot of debt to get an MD. Someone who takes on debt to get a bachelor’s degree in CS or engineering or nursing might also be an example of a case where a degree can lead directly to a career that can help a student pay off their debt.
However, many of us graduate with a bachelor’s degree and very little idea what we are going to do with that bachelor’s degree. I was an example of this. So are many others. In this case, if you have no debt, then you might want to find a job that pays well enough to live, but you can take your time, likely several years, to figure out what you actually want to do.
I got a bachelor’s degree in math, which is sort of intermediate in the sense that is seems practical but does not lead to any specific clearly defined job. It is something that may be useful in a number of different careers. Other people who I knew who got the same degree at the same time ended up in a rather wide range of careers.
I agree with this. Perhaps it might be reasonable to keep some thought in the back of your mind that you will want to do something after you graduate. However, if you do something that you hate, you are likely to have a miserable life.
This is also very true.
And to me this all seems like a lot for a 18 year old kid to try to figure out.
This is a very good point, and can be tough to predict. Sometimes the students who stand out even among the “elite aspirants” are the ones who were easily among the top 1% at a younger age. However, sometimes students who are not quite top 10% at an early age just keep getting stronger as they get to tougher work, or as they get to more specialized work.
I guess that we all just start off doing what seems to be right for us, and then we need to apply some flexibility to adjust as seems appropriate.
I think it goes deeper because everyone says they have this career plan - either they are going to become high paid investment bankers or consultants - or they are going Ivy or top 20 - so no problem paying off the debt.
Yet few people will make big money - and those that do come from many schools. And most who make these grandiose statements won’t be one of them.
But taking substantial debt, really above the $27k fed limit, will turn out disastrous for most.
They’ll be beholden to payments and lack choice In life.
It’s the same for people going to law or medical school. They spend so much on undergrad thinking it will matter for admission purposes - it likely won’t - how will they pay for those next years ?
These kids go to dinner at Outback because their families can’t afford Flemings. Yet when it comes to college choice, it’s Flemings all day long - even with years and years of interest.
College and career financial planning are lacking and it’s a shame. Btw the high priced schools love this !!!
Very true. One thing that was bugging me about my post above was the phrase “trustworthy way to pay off their debt”. An issue here is that whatever a 17 or 18 year old might think is a good plan to pay off their debt, might not actually work out in the real world.
Then there is the experience of a friend of mine who graduated MIT with a degree in math and then went to Harvard Law School. He passed the bar and then worked for a prestigious New York law firm for one week. He couldn’t stand it. Because he had gotten both degrees with no debt, he had the option of finding a different career and did so with success. People who graduate with an MD or a law degree and significant debt can be in some cases pretty much stuck – they have to stick with their career because it is the only way to pay off their debt.
While it’s true that colleges operate with a business mindset, their primary mission is often to provide education rather than directly guarantee job placement. Colleges may sometimes prioritize attracting students over aligning programs with job market demand. For example, if there’s a surge of interest in trendy majors like environmental studies, film studies, or kinesiology, universities may expand these programs to attract more students, even if the job market for these fields is limited.
It’s not that there’s no demand for graduates in these areas, but the number of students earning degrees can sometimes exceed the available job opportunities. This can lead to a mismatch between the skills students acquire and the realities of the job market. It’s essential for students to research job prospects and industry trends before committing to a major, especially in fields that can be highly competitive or niche.
Certain majors help with the first job. Once you get your first job, performance and networking are more important.
IMO, networking is the most important skillset in today’s hyper competitive employment market.
Unless someone is in a field that’s desperate for workers or is an expert in their industry, Im not sure how people get jobs through a traditional application process.
It seems like many fields are very specialized and you have to be a perfect match on paper. The best way to get past the screenng process (or move up at your current company) is to have advocates and mentors.
Parents often don’t know, or they may have obsolete knowledge from a generation ago. For example, parents may have no knowledge of career preparation and progression in areas they and they friends and coworkers are not in, and may not realize how expensive colleges can be now compared to when they were in college. They may have even less knowledge if they did not go to college.
However, if the kid is interested in a similar career as a parent, the parent’s knowledge of that career may be to the kid’s advantage. Connections may help as well.
I have a son who is a history major at a Jesuit college and is not a go getter. I am absolutely panicked over his lack of what he will do. I say this over and over to my husband that I wish he would have chosen a major with an easier career path.
While I think that kids with a strong drive and work ethic can flourish no matter what their major, there are plenty of kids out there who are graduating with a degree in international relations, communications or business from State U and can’t find a job.
I bet 1/2 the boys from our high school are business majors at nonselective colleges. They aren’t heading to Wall Street or anywhere glamorous. Instead, they will 1. Come back and work in the family business or dad finds them job with golfing buddy 2. Move to large city, get an apartment with 4 other boys and try and find something that pays while parents are paying his bills or 3. Move back in with parents and after 6 months or so find some kind of entry level job.
This is not my experience. I find the parents often as clueless as their kids- and downright hostile when someone (even a well meaning friend) offers actual expertise vs. “common knowledge”.
Case in point- a parent trying to get an acquaintance’s friend to “walk their kid’s resume” to the right person at DE Shaw. Savvy friend (not either of the original friends) points out that “knowing someone” at DE Shaw isn’t very useful. They use quant based and achievement based screens; “walking the kids resume” (when the employee doesn’t know the kid) will be a quick email, resume attached with a terse note “please see attached” and that’s IT.
Nobody at DE Shaw is risking their reputation by recommending someone they don’t know “just because” it’s the kid of an acquaintance. It’s not a place that runs on nepotism, unless you have the quantitative chops they don’t care WHO you know, and they care even less about who your parents know.
But the parents get enraged when said acquaintance says “Gee, I’m not sure Janet will be too helpful here since she doesn’t know your kid”.
Second case- “everyone” knows that majoring in broadcasting/communications is the way to get your foot in the door at CNN or a major network. Parent is furious when the kid across the street- a poli sci major-- gets the coveted job. “What does she even know about broadcasting?”
etc. I don’t find parents particularly “research oriented” these days!
Maybe all high school students and their parents should be required to come to College Confidential and participate in mandatory counseling regarding their choices.
I’m joking, obviously.
The fact is most aspiring students and their families will muddle through this major life decision.
When my older son was approaching college age I researched options and learned as much as I could to try to help him make good decisions. I do see other, otherwise intelligent parents, dropping the ball in some ways (my opinion). Unfortunately not every family or every student will know what to do. It’s just one more thing in a complicated life to try to figure out.
I think every parent should try to provide good guidance, but I agree not all will. And to be fair, it is an extremely complicated world, and of course it can be difficult to be objective when it is your own kid involved.
To me this suggests a couple things.
First, it is in fact valuable to have communities like this one where so many parents are coming from so many different backgrounds, and of course are more capable of being objective as to other kids not their own. But you do have to be willing to listen and consider.
Second, I also think it is valuable to stick to some basic rules of thumb unless you are very sure you are looking at an exceptional case. Like, use a college path that will be comfortably affordable for your family and does not depend on your kid getting an usually high income for a college grad to be viable. Stick to colleges where if the kid’s Plan A doesn’t work out, it will be solid for a lot of Plan Bs. That sort of thing.
And if you do that, then your kid can get help from the academic and career advising available at those colleges to pick specific paths, including as their interests and abilities evolve. And those people are in fact the real experts.
Not to mention, the old issue of what is useful now is not always what is useful in a decade or two. And it is not always what becomes obsolete. When I graduated, design was a pretty limited major in terms of job opportunities, and obviously it has exploded now with so many computer-related applications.
I have a different take on college as a parent. I pay for college on conditions that son/daughter receive an education and obtains marketable job skills where they can support themselves. I’m not paying for a degree where they graduate, live at home, and work at Safeway while they’re waiting for their “big break.” I expect my kids to be functioning adults
What happens with a kid whose “useful” career requires grad school? Tough to practice law without a JD; tough to become an epidemiologist without a Master’s or doctorate (depending on the subfield). Can that kid come home, work at Safeway before they start grad school or must they be launched by day 1 post-grad?
