But does sales in general need college education at all?
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So in many professions, among the valued skills are being a careful reader, clear writer, communicating well orally, and working well in groups, sometimes as a team member, sometimes as a leader.
I am skeptical all that can be developed with just a library card. Even the reading part, because I think a critical part of the process of becoming a careful reader is the experience of thinking what you read was clearly saying one thing, and then discussing that with someone who thought it was clearly saying something else.
I do recognize, of course, that you don’t necessarily need to be a Humanities major to develop such skills in college. Which is really underscoring the point that your major does not in fact define the limits of what you will learn in college.
But in any event, to the extent that developing such skills is part of the point of college, a lone reader does not seem likely to me to be able to have a truly equivalent education.
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And in fact a lot of what makes for long-term success in life is the willingness to take calculated risks. Not be reckless, but being willing to risk failure.
So there is a lot of power in having “insurance” such that you know trying and failing will not be catastrophic. And like you, I don’t see providing that to my kids as encouraging inactivity, but rather as enabling a vigorous approach to life.
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High paying sales jobs requires working with clients/customers who are relatively senior in their organization and likely very well educated. You don’t need to have read Kafka to sell elevator systems to the airport authority replacing the current elevators at a large metropolitan airport. And you don’t need to have an engineering background. But you are going to have to interpret charts, graphs, reams of data on operating costs, energy consumption, “just in time” replacement turnaround for repairs, etc. And answer questions on the fly- you can’t say “I’ll call our engineers and get back to you on that”-- you have to be able to connect the dots on your own in real time.
The days when a HS graduate could do that successfully- I am nostalgic for that. I knew a lot of “dads” growing up who had not gone to college but had solid careers in sales. (a friend’s father sold one thing- the textile used in making car seat cushions. They lived a “fancy” lifestyle for the neighborhood).
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Indeed, that may suggest that parental SES is a significant influence on the kid’s educational and life choices. The kid may make different choices based on whether there is a parental financial safety net that is available to them, versus if the kid’s income is likely to become the parents’ financial safety net.
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Many employers value people who can think, reason, problem solve, are well rounded, etc. Math or physics majors used to be in demand in varying fields because of that. Humanities majors are not necessarily going to end up in Low paying jobs or on the used car lot. How to Get a High-paying Job with Your Humanities & Sciences Degree — MT High Tech Business Alliance
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I could not agree with you more about the folly of attending a marginal university that is little better than a reputable high school, for any course of study. I would not support my son going to Northern SW Monroe County College or Eastern Overshoe for CompSci or English Lit.
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Those days are not past. I worked with guys without college educations who started in the trades and moved seamlessly into management, dealing with educated clients and senior management in their own firm. All that was required was a modicum of smarts, a strong work ethic, a willingness to take responsibility, and people skills. I also know guys who started in the trades, made a decent living right out of high school, and became very successful financially after starting their own firms.
Sure, an operating engineer (the guys who keep your office buildings running) will not land a client facing job at McKinsey, but he can run all of Jones Lang LaSalle’s building operations in the midwest. Unfortunately, I think career paths like the ones I described here are invisible to the “top 20 college, or bust” status seekers.
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Hey, don’t denigrate automobile sales. A good car sales person can make well into the six figures.
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Do most jobs require a college education to succeed?
No but often they do to get hired.
Many in my role have MBAs. If I had no degree at all I could easily do my job.
And the company requires a degree.
That’s very common.
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The last few years a half mil plus. A good gm - who likely started in sales or service - 7 figures.
Btw car dealers recruit at UT, A&M, SMU.
But there’s likely a difference from a Lexus, Porsche, BMW sales person and Ford from a sophistication level.
My last job was about 30 years ago, I worked for a security guard company. Every staff member (not guard) needed a 4 year college degree to be considered for employment. My job was hiring the guards, but I also screened other applicants, no college degree meant it never got further than my desk.
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What do people consider useful majors? Ones that can’t be replaced by AI?
Currently college degrees aren’t exactly a ticket to a job.
“Although unemployment rates have remained relatively stable, recent college graduates are struggling to find jobs more than others.”
The problem with comparing the rise of CS with the fall of humanities is that the two are very different pursuits. Someone with a passion for literature, say, may not have an equal love of or aptitude for CS and vice versa. But, when money is the driver, many round pegs end up in square holes.
Though I didn’t make that Faustian bargain in undergrad, I did succumb later. I majored in English (concentration in Shakespeare) which I loved, but spent my entire career in tech because that’s where I first found work (technical writing). I was as good with systems as I was at writing, but I went for the money (coding, networks, Unix) and have often posted here about my lucrative soul-sucking career from which I am now retired. I do have regrets and they definitely informed how I talked to my son about his own education.
But, facts are facts. The tables @Data10 posted are where we are today, though I doubt the magnitude of the shift correlates with a matching shift in interests. Instead, the data reveals the emphasis students place on the ROI of their degrees–that they are, in fact, choosing “useful majors.” No debate there, but we may never be able to quantify at what cost.
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In many, but not all, cases a college degree is the new high school diploma.
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Someone wrote above - if you don’t have a specific degree like accounting - sales is what you can do.
When I flamed out of my chosen industry 30+ years ago - and with my history and journalism degree - that was my path. I had 3 offers.
Fortunately I chose the right one. Made six figures in mid 90s b4 they ‘fixed’ the pay plan.
That said, they wanted a degree.
Sales always has the potential to be lucrative and it’s typically the most protected from the ax if you are good.
They cut the non revenue generators. My CEO at the time - Fortune 500 company - told me that on a chair lift in Aspen at a recognition event when I told him I want to pivot.
It’s likely true today.
If I were in sales, I would starve. We’re not all cut out for sales!
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LOL! I graduated with an accounting degree and went directly into sales.
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Have had some bad experiences with car salesman who were very dishonest. Have to wonder if there could be a correlation between car sales income and “sliminess” for lack of a better word. The blatant lies were absurd. The last car we bought, the person they dumped us off on knew little about the car and I knew more than he did. He asked me if I wanted a job.
The guy we dealt with for the bulk of the sale made so many “mistakes” (shall we say) I had to get help from the regional manager.
We used to believe college was for education not job training. When intelligence, education, and genuine interest converge, people tend to excel, and we had a workforce second to none.
I understand the money issue. College costs are so high that parents and students often prioritize a guaranteed return on their investment, but I think we’ve leaned in too much on specific job training. While our system still produces many high-quality graduates, too many students get through with limited rigor and miss out on the education they deserve, and these grads can struggle in the job market. This shortfall is partly the responsibility of universities for allowing it to happen and partly on students for not fully maximizing their opportunities.
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