<p>My H is teaching pre-calculus as an adjunct at a college for one semester. When he took the job, he was told that HALF the students who enroll in this class historically flunk it. The students who take this class typically do so because they are interested in a major that requires calculus, such as pharmacy.</p>
<p>Sure enough, about half of them are failing. Most are doing very poorly. He has office hours: no one comes. He writes on the quizzes of those who get NO correct answers that they should make an appointment to see him: a couple make the appointment, only one actually shows. The college has retained a student tutor for the class: it is unclear whether any of them consult him.</p>
<p>Most of the students seem to have no idea of how to attack a problem. When given a multiple choice test, the majority of the students don’t even attempt to solve a problem mechanically by substituting the printed values for the variables until they find the value or set of values that works.</p>
<p>Any theories as to why these kids are this way? Is math at this level really simply beyond the comprehension of some people? Is it that they have no idea how to be a student?</p>
<p>My SIL teaches some business courses at a community college. Every year she has students with averages like 10 and 15. She begs them to come in for help, for extra credit, etc. but they don’t.</p>
<p>This was my experience in freshman calculus at an expensive selective college as well. Not that the kids were hopelessly unprepared to pass, but that the people who needed help the most were not the ones going to office hours. And our professor was super nice and un-scary, too. Office hours were packed with students like me trying to turn a 3.7 into a 4.0.</p>
<p>That is my H’s experience as well. Students will email him saying “what can I do to bring my grade up?” H replies to come see him and bring your book and your notes and he will be happy to discuss where they might be going wrong. (He’s believes most don’t bother to buy the book). No one ever comes to see him in person.</p>
<p>It sounds like those kids have essentially no background in math if they don’t even know how to go about a problem. Maybe the level of math is above them, or maybe they’re just missing so many foundational math skills and concepts (either because those were also too difficult, bad teachers in middle and high school, or no previous effort) that they can’t imagine how to go about pre-calc.</p>
<p>mommusic, I have the feeling that while they can read and write, most of them lack the ability to attack ANY kind of a problem: deciphering a poem that requires interpretation, for example. They seem to lack basic thinking skills, to me. (I can’t get over not even trying out the possible answers on a multiple choice test!)</p>
<p>A few years ago I taught a class at a community college. I was consistently surprised at the lack of writing skills in the students in this class–with one or two exceptions. I’m by no means saying all com. college students are poorly prepared, but this bunch certainly was. At some point I had to give up on correcting writing, etc. It was depressing, and the entire paper would have ended up “red.” For the most part I was also surprised by the lack of motivation, and the complaints I received because it was “too much” work. what I required of them was certainly no more than is required of a HS student. 95% of these students planned to go to 4 year college later. In my mind they would have failed miserably. Further perspective, a number of them could not pass the basic exam required for potential teachers. Needless to say I declined the request to come back for another semester.</p>
<p>The college in question is a 4-year school, btw. And H says they have a “retention program.” Obviously there are other students at this school who actually are in calculus class, so the inability to do math is not universal amongst their student body. I just cannot get over the fact that 50% of the kids who take this class routinely fail. Every frickin’ year!</p>
<p>Wouldn’t you think they would DO something about it? Have a placement test? Make kids repeat algebra/algebra II or something, so that they had the foundation to do the work? Isn’t it cheating these kids to just keep feeding them into the meatgrinder? </p>
<p>I contrast this to my S’s college, where kids who score something like 630 on the CR part of the SAT have to take TWO writing courses PLUS a writing-intensive seminar freshman year. Kids who score between 630 and 770 or so have to take a writing course plus a writing-intensive seminar. Only kids who score above that are exempt from the writing course, and they have to take the writing-intensive seminar. That school is NOT going to let a kid get out of freshman year without being prepared to write a decent college paper. And it’s not as if a kid who scores 630 on the CR part of the SAT is some kind of slouch to start with!</p>
<p>This kind of thing is why I really question the advice often given to very bright students with so-so records to go to CC first. I’d think that after one week in class they would be ready to open a vein.</p>
<p>Consolation–As I was originally posting here I had the same thought regarding community colleges. Then I start to wonder “if” everyone should go to college, etc. That leads to thoughts about changes in the system of higher education in our country. No clear answers…</p>
<p>Ha…I just spent my morning at the gym talking to DD’s community college professor. He is teaching CC through a program which offers the courses dual enrollment with her HS.
She has told me some students are so awful that it is embarassing.<br>
The professor (whom I knew before he started doing this teaching) told me that it is indeed bad. He has four or so As and a bunch of kids who are failing. He has been telling students that they should drop the class if they don’t intend to do the work.<br>
These kids need this class to graduate from HS. Apparently that reality hasn’t hit home yet.
He also told me that last year he had calls from parents after the fact wanting to know what could be done to get their kid a passing grade. Please…</p>
<p>They should have a placement test - it would avoid wasting time spent flunking a course.</p>
<p>My girl began HS in the ‘regular ed.’ math class. I thought it was too easy. I lobbied for her to get into honors, and achieved this enhanced placement after three meetings with the department head. Why did I go to this trouble? Because while they call the regular ed classes “college prep”, and claimed that 4 years on that track would ready a student for “calculus”, they admitted on close questioning that their students would not be ready for engineering-school level calculus. What?? Very misleading labeling and claims, IMO.</p>
<p>At our school, kids without parents who can ask the right questions and sit down for 3 meetings stay in regular ed. math and consequently are unprepared for college level precalc. They would have to retake advanced algebra with more rigor to be ready. But if they’ve been told they’d be ready, and nobody makes them take a placement test, then no wonder they sign up for precalc. And if it’s the first time they’ve had to struggle, no wonder they flunk.</p>
<p>My friend teaches at the local CC and is amazed at the lack of preparedness and the number of F’s. He thinks that parents want their kids in college, for prestige reasons, or for the insurance coverage.</p>
<p>BTW, I have another friend who simultaneously taught classes at a CC and a 4 year. She says that the student caliber was the same, but at the 4 year more kids showed up for class than at the CC. One kid at the 4 year didn’t know that the blue stuff on the globe represented water!</p>
<p>My neighbor kid attends a college that gave him an online math placement test last summer. He’s doing fine in pre-calc, but his roommate is flunking calc so will be withdrawing and will start over with pre-calc next semester… Apparently the roommate tested out of pre-calc by getting some “help” on the online placement. What an idiot.</p>
<p>*The college in question is a 4-year school, btw. And H says they have a “retention program.” Obviously there are other students at this school who actually are in calculus class, so the inability to do math is not universal amongst their student body. I just cannot get over the fact that 50% of the kids who take this class routinely fail. Every frickin’ year!</p>
<p>Wouldn’t you think they would DO something about it? Have a placement test? Make kids repeat algebra/algebra II or something, so that they had the foundation to do the work? Isn’t it cheating these kids to just keep feeding them into the meatgrinder? *</p>
<p>My oldest daughter attended a rigorous prep school where virtually 100% go on to top 100 4- yr school.
She had taken pre-calc as a junior & stats as a senior. ( they used Mathematica)
As she has a math disability- she wanted to take pre-calc over at a community college, before taking calc at Reed. ( calculus is the lowest level math @ Reed & after taking a year off, it had been two years since pre-calc)</p>
<p>The community college- does not accept transcripts for placement- she had to take a placement test- and since she was confident- she did not ask for testing accommodations.
However- without accommodations she didn’t even place into pre-calc- even though in high school she had completed the class with an A-. Once she retook the placement test, she- placed at least into pre-calc- took it and took Calc at Reed.</p>
<p>Some difficulty may be the material that the college is using- they don’t seem very successful- if they know that 1/2 the class does not learn the material enough to pass, yet that doesn’t motivate them to change their program.
They seem more interested in enrolling the students and collecting the fees than in giving appropriate instruction.</p>
<p>I would suggest- placement tests.
An analysis of curriculum- also looking elsewhere at similar schools & student bodies that enjoy greater success.
Pacing the class slower- some people need more time to process- thats probably why that it is taught in high school over one year- instead of a qtr as in college.
Pre-calc really isn’t that hard- I have a math disability as well- but I use that info almost every day. It just took me more time to learn it.</p>
<p>I have the same experience with students. I teach seniors at a pretty decent college who have supposedly had calculus, differential equations etc who can’t take the derivative of xsquared.</p>