Should Tufts be Ranked Higher?

Colleges & Universities Tufts University
101

Someone had to say this. Tufts is a great school but it’s not for everyone. s/

Want to go to Tufts? Average excellent student from the correct Boston area zip code like Wellesley or Lincoln Sudbury HS? Rich kid from Dana Hall or mid packer from Deerfield or Andover? Grab a pencil. You’re in there! High stat student who needs financial aid from Wilmington or Woburn MA? Kid you better walk on water. You know we can’t take too many local applicants. I will say something nice -Tufts appears to do very well with outcomes.

102

You can see who which colleges Tufts lists as its peers and which colleges list Tufts as their peers with the tool at https://www.chronicle.com/article/who-does-your-college-think-its-peers-are/?cid=gen_sign_in .

The only colleges that both Tuft and the college agreed they were both peers were Boston College and Boston U. Regarding Lehigh, Lehigh says that Tufts is its peer, but Tufts does not say Lehigh is its peer. So Lehigh doesn’t think the comparison is laughable, but Tufts may not feel great about being compared to Lehigh. Instead Tufts says it is peers with Georgetown (like you listed), as well as peers with most Ivies, Duke, Northwestern, etc. This seems to be a common pattern. Colleges tend to list their peers as colleges that are more selective.

Tufts lists the following colleges as its peers – Boston College, Boston U, WUSTL, all Ivies except HYP, Northwestern, Georgetown, and Duke

The following colleges lift Tuft as its peers – Boston College, Boston U, Lehigh, Northeastern, College of NJ, University of Phoenix (Jersey City), and 14 others.

I agree that Tufts is more selective than Lehigh for most fields, but that is far from the sole determinant of USNWR ranking. Selectivity is closely correlated with graduation rate. So there is a indirect influence, and Tufts does indeed have a higher graduation rate than Lehigh, which contributes to Tufts being ranked a little higher in UNSWR than Lehigh.

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103

The NYT article you cite was a great journalistic project five years ago, but the data is already dated – it’s mostly based on the class of 2013, who are now turning 30.

Today 15% of WashU students are Pell-eligible, up from 6% in 2013 (eventually they got enough bad press to do something about it!) So that could have some effect on the median income… unless the Pell-eligible students just displaced other lower/middle income students.

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104

The truth is - schools benchmark others to ensure they are competitive - so as Data10 stated, Lehigh might track Tufts but not vice versa.

When I brought up the point that many people who go to Lehigh could likely get into Tufts - it was a statement - not meant to start over analyzing. But then Luckyjade2024 took offense - but we found out she’s a Tufts student.

I assure you, forgetting 3rd parties, each college has a list they compare themselves against just like a BMW 5 series will compare itself vs. a Lexus, Mercedes E, and Audi A6. They may not compare themselves vs. Cadillac or Genesis but those brands may compare themselves vs. BMW.

I don’t know if the schools list who they see as peers - so what is being posted seems to be 3rd party data.

I found Wake Forest (as an example) on their Office of Institutional Research website - so they are tracking these schools - it doesn’t mean the reverse is happening. I doubt Dartmouth tracks Wake, etc.

  • College of William and Mary
  • Dartmouth College
  • Davidson College
  • Duke University
  • Emory University
  • George Washington University
  • Tufts University
  • UNC Chapel Hill
  • University of Notre Dame
  • University of Virginia
  • Vanderbilt University
  • Washington and Lee University

For SMU, it’s

BOSTON COLLEGE
Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts

BOSTON UNIVERSITY
Boston, Massachusetts

BRANDEIS UNIVERSITY
Waltham, Massachusetts

CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

EMORY UNIVERSITY
Atlanta, Georgia

NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY
Boston, Massachusetts

TUFTS UNIVERSITY
Medford, Massachusetts

TULANE UNIVERSITY
New Orleans, Louisiana

UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME
Notre Dame, Indiana

UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER
Rochester, New York

UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
Los Angeles, California

WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY
Winston-Salem, North Carolina

Elon - this one is interesting - they track Lehigh. I bet Lehigh doesn’t track them :slight_smile: I can’t find Lehigh or Tufts list though.

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105

The list is based on the comparison group schools the colleges submit to IPEDS. The NCES sends them back a report that lists how their college compares to their submitted comparison colleges in a wide variety of metrics and changes over time.

Colleges submit several such peer groups to various sources. For example, a list for Wake Forest is at Peer Institutions - Office of Institutional Research . Wake Forest calls these “Peer Institutions”. They have one set of peers for IPEDS, another for G14 sharing internal information with each other, one for most similar colleges as determined by computer algorithm, one for board of trustees, one for frequent cross admits, and one for similar cost of attendance + financial aid. Tufts appears in 5 of these 6 lists for Wake Forest peer lists (everything except frequent cross admits) , including the referenced NCES comparison list that was used to generate the Chronicle interactive tool.

106

I just wanted to come on here as an incoming Lehigh student, and a daughter of a Tufts graduate. The elitism echoes that of my parent who graduated Tufts, and while Tufts is a great institution–one of which I was heavily considering–this is part of the reason I ultimately had Lehigh as my top choice. I don’t want to make assumptions, but many Tufts students are ivy/top 20 rejects, and they tend to stick with that attitude. IMO it’s best not to bring up rankings, because Tufts has consistently been ranked lower than the peer schools it claims. That being said, its extremely selective, and obviously its selectivity and other factors might not have it paired alongside institutions like Tulane, Lehigh, Case, BU, BC, U. of Rochester, etc., but to say that comparison is ‘laughable’, then to say that a school’s admitted test scores are the best representation of the quality of their student body is actually laughable in itself. It’s this sort of elitism that is really damaging, and can offend Tufts students themselves. For the record, Lehigh’s admittance rate rising from a low of 19 percent to 45 percent is due to the Path to Prominence, where they are admitting more students over the next decade to make it more of a well-rounded research institution. When you rely solely on numbers, it becomes less of actually comparing the schools based on their resources, students, faculty, programs, etc. and rather playing the rankings game (something Tufts has pioneered).

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107

I also want to add that the entire US News rankings thing is in someways just ridiculous. They make you pay money to ‘unlock’ certain rankings (just a blatant ploy for making money), and they rank colleges based on superficial aspects at times. This is part of the reason Tufts has been ranked relatively low. I think its best to just be content with where you are, and get out of the mindset that rankings are all that matter.

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108

I don’t think Tufts plays the rankings game well at all.

109

They clearly havent been since theyve been trying to be a top 10 for a while, but I meant as in they sort of pioneered the whole yield protection game.

110

It’s kind of funny that Tufts is considered “hyper-selective” when the alternate term for yield protection is literally Tufts Syndrome.

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111

I’ve had a bad experience with the WashU FinAid dept so I might just be a little biased, but I will say I have multiple friends who say the suburban ultra-elite environment still thrives at the school, and most QuestBridge/Pell students almost lead entirely different lives.

112

I looked back at old Lehigh threads and saw that you actually committed there before getting off the waitlist at Tufts. You’ve been degrading the school so much, I’m surprised after it seemed like you actually really liked it last year. I’m just wondering what changed so much, since you’re making it sound like nobody would ever consider it to Tufts, yet, you yourself once did??

113

I never “degraded it so much”. I said it was a safety to Tufts which it was for me and I’m sure others.

Stating that a school is a safety to another doesn’t degrade the school. If stating that Tufts is a safety to HPY…Does that degrade Tufts? no…it’s just a fact.

I committed before getting off Tufts waitlist. I had to turn down more selective than Lehigh schools because the lack of funding/aid.

I’m not trying at all to come off as elite. I have a cousin who went through Lehigh’s engineering program. He’s still involved with the school and finishing his PHD. He told me Lehigh is not at all up to the standards of the past and it is reflected in the constant drop in applicants and rankings.

I was going to attend the new College of Health which has had too many issues and faculty upheaval since day one. The more I looked into things and spoke with other students etc…I realized it wasn’t a good fit. I committed mostly for financial reasons.

Tufts was a top two choice for me and also wound up giving me the most aid. So I’m so thankful to be here. Not elite at all…humbled to attend a great university.

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114

Funny…Tufts gave me the best aid of all schools I applied to.

115

Lehigh has also had a consistent drop in applications.

116

Idk I went through the threads and u were very nervous about the admission letter coming out. You were one of the most active members in that thread, and seemed genuinely worried about your admittance. You also said that they gave you no merit aid compared to Rochester and Case, yet you still chose it over them. At the time of your commitment, they had a 22 percent acceptance rate, and you sounded like a large supporter of the school. This isn’t meant to like start a fight, I don’t mean to make you disgruntled at all, I’m just trying to say that in past threads you really were saying quite the opposite.

117

I couldn’t travel to Case and Rochester due to family issues. I appealed to Lehigh for more aid and they granted it (they were good in that way) With Lehigh I was concerned about the party atmosphere, faculty turnover, drop in applicants and Alumni also coming down on the “Path to Prominence” etc…Just because I didn’t post every detail, doesn’t mean those issues didn’t factor in. To me Tufts is a better school in many aspects. Also, they handled covid better than most schools and I’m thankful to have a full semester on campus.

120

A summary is below. It doesn’t look like a consistent drop in applications to me. In the past 7 admission cycles, Lehigh only had a drop in the class of 2024, which likely primarily relates to COVID.

Class of 2019 – 12% increase in applications.
Class of 2020 – 4.4% increase in applications
Class of 2021 – 3.5% increase in applications
Class of 2022 – 13% increase in applications
Class of 2023 – 0.2% increase in applications
Class of 2024 – 20% decrease in applications
Class of 2025 – 14% increase in applications

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121

This doesn’t sounds the standard definition of “safety” used on the forum, which involves applying to a college where acceptance is near guaranteed, will meet financial need, and the student would be okay with attending. The idea if the student is rejected to all of their match/ reach schools, they will have a safety to fall back on.

Lehigh marks level of applicant’s interest as “important” in the CDS and has been known to reject highly qualified applicants for things like not opening the application portal to check status. It’s become somewhat of a posterchild as a bad choice for a “safety” Tufts is also something of a posterchild as a bad choice for a “safety” due to beliefs of Tufts practicing “Tuft’s Syndrome.” I don’t think this label is well deserved or accurate any more, but I still wouldn’t recommend that a student who is applying to HYP choose Tufts as a safety.

Perhaps you instead meant a significant portion of students who apply to Ivies like HYP also apply to Tufts, and those students would generally only choose Tufts if rejected by all of the HYP… type schools they apply to. This is generally the way cross admit decisions work. Students who favor Tufts over HYP don’t apply to the more selective HYP as a backup in case the less selective Tufts rejects them. That wouldn’t make sense. So students who favor Tufts over HYP don’t show up in cross admit stats. Instead the students who do show up in cross admits are students who favor HYP over tTufts and would only choose Tufts if rejected by HYP.

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122

@Data10 Looking at Tufts on Naviance, they reject almost everyone from our (large, competitive, Midwest) high school. WashU- and all the ivies- look easy in comparison. Maybe this is different in the northeast? I wouldn’t dream of considering Tufts a safety for any school or an Ivy, but can see your point about overlapping applicants.

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