Should we hire a private counsellor?

Parents Forum
1

<p>The question that we have been contemplating for last few weeks is whether private counsellor be hired for my son.</p>

<p>Here are few things I think he needs help with from a counsellor

  1. Bless the list of schools based on his profile so that there are good safety schools. Can we consider one of the top 2 UCs as safety
  2. Help identify school for early admission which will give him a fair chance
  3. He has drafted essays for Stanford, but given his vast extra curricular activities - want to do brainstorming and get guidance on topics which should be included in Essays.
  4. Critique the essays so that he can improve upon them. We being first generation English speakers may not be able to do good justice in essay review.
  5. Ensure that he has correct course selection in Senior Year.</p>

<p>Challenges

  1. I checked with few private counsellors and first they are not able to provide references for kids in top colleges
  2. Their fees is very very steep. $200/hr to $6K package.</p>

<p>I wanted to get views from parents on this forum before making a decision.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>Here is his profile (Asian Indian).</p>

<p>SAT II Biology: 750
SAT II Math Level II: 790
SAT II Chemistry: 790
SAT II U.S. History: 760
SAT : 2150
ACT: 35</p>

<p>AP Biology (5), AP Computer Science A (5), APUSH (5), AP Calc BC (5). </p>

<p>All of those tests have only been taken once.</p>

<p>Unweighted GPA is 3.94.</p>

<p>Extra-curriculars:</p>

<ul>
<li>President and Founder of successfull non-profit organization: (Had 10 summer volunteers)</li>
<li>Captain of my Cross Country and Track Team, while on the team for all years so far</li>
<li>President of UN Club at school</li>
<li>Founded for-profit web development company in 9th grade but closed it down after he could not find traction in market. However it was great learning experience</li>
<li>Founded for-profile entertainment group in 8th grade but closed it down because of lack of interest</li>
<li>Member of National Honor Society, California Scholarship Federation, Mock Trial Club

<ul>
<li>Played Soccer for 9th, and 10th grade and will play in 12th too.</li>
<li>Volunteered at AYSO VIP Soccer</li>
<li>Volunteered at about 6 or 7 other organizations that focus on helping people with disabilities</li>
<li>Went to COSMOS at UCSD for Bio-Engineering Summer 2011</li>
<li>Taking physics at a community college</li>
<li>Official contributor to India West and Cupertino Patch, two newspapers</li>
<li>Scholar Athlete for two years</li>
<li>Working on creating a mobile app for non-profit</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<p>Want to double major in General Computer Engineering and Finance or Economics. If that major is not provided at that college, then I would major in General Computer Science.</p>

<p>List of schools:</p>

<ul>
<li>Stanford (Early)

<ul>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Harvey Mudd</li>
<li>UC Berkeley</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>UCSD</li>
<li>UC Davis</li>
<li>UC Irvine</li>
<li>UC Santa Cruz</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

2

<p>A safety school meets these four criteria:</p>

<p>1) Your son knows that he will be admitted because the GPA and exam scores required for admission are posted right on the college/university website. I don’t know if any of the UCs do that. His own high school guidance counselor should be able to tell him which UCs have never rejected applicants from his school who have his profile, and while those UCs can’t be considered dead-on safeties, they certainly are reasonably safe.</p>

<p>2) Your family can pay for it without any aid other than federally determined (using the FAFSA) aid, and/or guaranteed state aid (Blue & Gold, Cal Grant, etc.), and/or guaranteed merit-based aid from the college/university itself.</p>

<p>3) His major is offered.</p>

<p>4) He will be happy to attend if come April he has no other affordable options.</p>

<p>In other words: Academically Safe, Financially Safe, and “Love Thy Safety” Safe.</p>

<p>Your son has an excellent profile. There are a number of threads in the Financial Aid Forum that have information about guaranteed merit-based scholarships (some of them true full rides) that he would be competitive for. Many of those are purely numbers based and do not require any sort of essay. Have him take a look at those threads, and see if there is anything that could work for him.</p>

<p>Several parents here are expert on the California system. Some of them are likely to see this thread and chime in. Personally, I don’t think that your son needs a professional to help him with his application process, but other parents will have more ideas on that topic for you. If you and your son have time to spend reading up on the process here, and following leads that the various posters offer you, you can probably do-it-yourself as many of us have in previous years.</p>

<p>Wishing you and your family all the best.</p>

3

<p>A word regarding review and editing of essays. Our S2 worked with two teachers at school for this (AP Comp & Gifted Coordinator). He asked prior, gave them PLENTY of time, sent them third drafts, not first drafts, and worked with each teacher on different essays. We (his parents) didn’t see them until the final proof for typos on the Common Ap. Some people really benefit from private counselors, however your son may be able to work effectively with one or two teachers he has a good relationship with.</p>

4

<p>Here is something a counselor will tell you - don’t put that SAT score on anything - use only the ACT and SAT II scores.</p>

5

<p>Your son’s credentials look excellent as does the list of schools. I don’t think spending the money for a private counselor will gain your son anything as you’ve done most of the work already. Perhaps some English teachers at your son’s school can look over and critique the application essays before submitting them (this is commonly done), and the school guidance counselor should be able to, if he’s doing his job correctly, advise your son of what courses would be appropriate for the last year of high school (generally enough AP classes to show he is challenging himself yet still be able to do well in whatever he takes). </p>

<p>I’d be more inclined to favor use of a private counselor if the student was shooting for a lot of reach schools but had some major weaknesses in his credentials and therefore whose image needed to be packaged to best advantage, or was clueless as to which schools to even try for, or the student just couldn’t get his act together for the whole application process and needed someone to make a schedule of things to do and set deadlines, none of which sound like your situation. </p>

<p>There are books you can buy at bookstore chains or on Amazon which explain the whole application process in general and give advice on filling out the Common App. Perhaps that is all you really need.</p>

6

<p>agree with kiddie. The reality is, with a bit of time here on this site, you can save yourself a ton of money and figure most of it out.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Why I agree with this, his list is very Ivy heavy and the Ivy list is a crap shoot no matter what his stats are. Kids with an arms length resume, perfect SATs/ACTs and 4.0 get turned away every single year. Nothing wrong with a few reaches, but I see that 70% of his list are reaches. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Not just affordable options, options period. A young lady my daughter went to school with that had a strong if not stronger profile and a similar balance of schools and only one true academic safety (State Flagship) only got one acceptance letter. 13 applications and she landed at her safety. She did not participate in “love thy safety” and although she is still there (entering sophomore year) she is not doing well academically because in my opinion, she feels the school is beneth her and she simply does not put in the effort. Waste of time and talent because of lack of reality in top 20 admissions.</p>

<p>I know nothing about UCs so I am not one to comment on that.</p>

<p>Good Luck.</p>

7

<p>“Can we consider one of the top 2 UCs as safety?”
NO, not if by 2 top schools you mean UCB or UCLA.
The only “match -safeties” on your list are probably UC Irvine, Santa Cruz. It is way too top heavy . And you have no private match/ safeties schools. I suggest he add USC to his list as a match.
It is also a little late to try to find a private counselor on the SF Peninsula- most start to work with students during their Jr year. And 200/hr is the going rate unfortunately.
A private counselor has absolutely no ability to increase a students chances of getting into a top college- all they can do is provide guidance. </p>

<p>As far as the EC’s, eliminate anything he did in 8th grade or before. Stanford gives students 3 opportunities to write about 3 completely different topics- dont make them only about his EC’s. And remember, most of the top colleges dont care a whit how much a student wants to go there. He should use his essays to talk about his passions and interests, events that have made him who he is, and issues he cares about.
As I and others said on another thread, your S should revise his Senior year class schedule and add back a 4th year of Language. </p>

<p>And I agree with the suggestion to only report his ACT score, unless he can raise his SAT score by 200+ pts. in Oct.</p>

8

<p>Thanks for all the suggestions. Truely appreciated.</p>

<p>He is considering UCSD and Davis as safety and would be happy to go there. If it is not top tier school then he plans to stay in California.</p>

<p>Adding USC to the list is great idea. I will look into it.</p>

<p>Any suggestion on “Brainstorming and getting guidance on topics which should be included in Essays.” What is the best way to brainstorm, who to brainstorm with, etc?</p>

<p>Especially given that there is no right or wrong answer, he is essentially looking for someone who have gone through this process multiple times and can provide some wisdom.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

9

<p>

Are you the son or parent? Most people hire a private couselor much earlier on, not senior year. What you need now is someone to help you with your essays, not necessary a private counselor.</p>

10

<p>I second the suggestion of adding some more-likely-to-get-into private schools, if he’s interested in the atmosphere and support typically provided by private institutions. Otherwise, you may be setting yourself up for having no private options.</p>

11

<p>If money is no object, a private counselor may reduce the amount of tension which can build in a home during the application process. (I am assuming that the person you would hire has established his/her bona fides.)</p>

<p>It is a very stressful several months coming up - more tests, preparing apps, essays, and school all going on can really lead to some major blow-ups. A private counselor shepards the app process and is an outsider riding your son and may act as a buffer. That alone may be worth the price during the final months with your son - who this time next year will be gone to school.</p>

<p>What does your son want?</p>

12

<p>Your SON should be brainstorming ideas for his essays. He should get a piece of old fashioned paper and write down topics,that interest him. No one else,can choose his essay topic, but others CAN read what he has written. </p>

<p>Our kids started a few WORD documents the summer prior to their senior years in high school. They wrote about,several topics…and then chose the ones they felt reflected their interests and personalities best. A good friend preofread these, and made some suggestions…but did NOT tell the kiddos what to write about or,what to actually write.</p>

<p>Agreed with others…you need to include some private schools other than the tippy top ones you have…if your kiddo is really interested in private schools.</p>

13

<p>I think whether to hire a private college counselor is a personal decision with no right or wrong answer, rather like whether to hire a yard service or cut the grass yourself. You yourselves could probably do what a consultant will do if you’re willing to spend your family’s time and energy that way, or you could hire somebody else to do it if that’s how you choose to deploy your resources. If you have the money, it’s totally up to you.</p>

<p>But you might find it helpful to read this thread <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1290349-my-experience-personal-college-consultant.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1290349-my-experience-personal-college-consultant.html&lt;/a&gt; to help you decide what to do.</p>

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<p>There’s nothing wrong with a reach heavy list for a kid with these stats as long as there are safeties he likes. I do suggest having two safeties, if possible, so that even if he has very bad luck, he’s got choices. My older son applied to 6 reaches and 2 safeties. My younger son had 6 reaches and 1 safety. (He got into a reach EA, or he’d have had another safety.) He really liked his safety and gave it serious consideration.</p>

<p>If he wants a different kind of safety other than the UC system, since he’s interested in comp sci he might look at some of the tech schools. RPI and WPI were my older sons safeties.</p>

15

<p>You have a pretty good sense of what a college admissions consultant could do for you: list review, essay tuning, application strategy, scheduling. Also consider that they can help take some of the stress off the family by being the intermediary between student and parents and “bad-cop” who pushes the student to complete applications on time.</p>

<p>But it is also true that you probably can do most this adequately by yourselves with resources at your disposal (you can get teachers and friends, for example, to review essays). The decision to hire a professional in this case is just like that in many other home project situations, such as house painting, and turns on the balance of time, stress, cost, and quality you feel is right for your son and family. No simple answer is possible.</p>

<p>However, you do not have to allow geography to restrict your set of college admissions counselors. Many counselors from across the country would be willing to work with your family using e-mail, telephone, and Skype. And many will provide application-support only, if that’s what you want, after your search and list has been completed. Some will work on an ad hoc hourly basis as well as provide a package of application support services. Consult the directories on HECA and IECA for more possible leads, or do a Google search. You might find somewhat cheaper prices if you look for a counselor in the midwest. Most counselors will do a no-cost initial interview to determine whether they can meet your needs.</p>

16

<p>

</p>

<p>I agree with this.</p>

<p>Another thing a counselor would tell you is to send a resume. I would also suggest that he get an additional recommendation–beyond the obligatory GC and 2 teachers–from someone who knows him well and thinks highly of him in one of his ECs.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I also agree with this. High-stats kids often have a top heavy list, and you are lucky in that you have so many in-state options and do not have to look far afield for safeties. I would say, looking at his list, that he is a viable candidate at the Ivies, but it is a toss-up for him at most of them and Stanford, as it is for just about everyone. I would be surprised if he did not get in to Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, and Hopkins, plus the U Cs, but freely admit that I know little about U C admissions. BTW, what is his class rank, if any? </p>

<p>Regarding the essays, for the personal statement on the Common Ap I would suggest that what your son needs to do is DISTILL his experience in the essay, not present a laundry list of what he has done. He should pick one experience that has been very meaningful for him, and write thoughtfully and well about that. There isn’t much room, and depth is probably more important than breadth. What he needs to do is convey a strong impression of who he is, and show that he writes well. It would be a good thing if you could find someone who knows about writing to go over his major essays with him, but I don’t think you need to hire an independent counselor.</p>

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<p>It is entirely up to you. I do not have experience, we did not consider it. We did not consider many things that you are considering, like looking over essays. We heard on one information session, that adcoms are looking for very authentic ones, and they usually can tell if it is written by HS graduate or has been polished by somebody else. We also did not consider any Elite/Top schools. D. choose her schools based on long research and multiple visits to make sure that school matches to her personality and wide range of interests, including potential future interests. It took lots of efforts, but it paid off. Not sure if any outsider would be able to tell a kid how she/he would feel living at certain campus for 4 years. But, again, D. did not listen very carefully to her school counselor either, she had her personal criteria fo choosing and she was very stubborn about it. It worked out for HER. Your kid is definitely very different as every one of them is unique. You have to ask yourself and your kid what would work for you.</p>

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<p>Essays: get ahold of a copy of Harry Bauld’s “On Writing the College Application Essay”. Despite the dull-as-paint title, this is a short and highly amusing/readable book that has lots of great suggestions on how to make an essay sing. </p>

<p>Cal and UCLA as safeties: rarely true, but you’ll want to hear from your/your son’s high school counselors on if this applies at all to students at that high school. Given the uncertainties in the state budget and how that might play out on admissions, I would no longer simply trust the assertion that all students from your high school with similar high stats who applied to Cal/UCLA were admitted last year. I’d want to know if students with similar stats received likely letters from Cal/UCLA early in the admissions cycle last year (and yes, I’ve seen non-athelete students receive those letters). </p>

<p>Not as much a name brand as what’s on the list, but Santa Clara University would be quite likely to give a generous chunk of merit aid and would allow the student to stay in CA.</p>

19

<p>One thing that posters must not be aware of (or are glossing over) is Stanford requires ALL test scores to be sent. [Testing</a> : Stanford University](<a href=“Page Not Found : Stanford University”>Standardized Testing : Stanford University)</p>

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<p>That price/hour sounds exhorbitant for the point you are in this process…if you do want to find someone (outside of the english teachers etc) to look at the essays, etc,</p>