Simple poll: what contributes most to intelligence/success?

<p>Intelligence:</p>

<p>0) completely genetic

  1. Mostly genetic
  2. roughly equal combination of genes and environment, lots of variation
  3. mostly environment
  4. completely environmental</p>

<p>Success:</p>

<p>a) completely genetic
b) Mostly genetic
c) roughly equal combination of genes and environment, lots of variation
d) mostly environment
e) completely environmental</p>

<p>==</p>

<p>Secondary question:</p>

<p>The average IQ of blacks is 85. The average IQ of Jews is 115. Asians 106, Whites 100. What do you think are the reasons for this inter-racial difference? </p>

<p>0) completely genetic

  1. Mostly genetic
  2. roughly equal combination of genes and environment, lots of variation
  3. mostly environment
  4. completely environmental</p>

<p>2d</p>

<p>Then again, being a humanist, I would say there is the factor, not in intelligence, but in success, of using intelligence.</p>

<p>Q1:</p>

<p>1) Mostly genetic</p>

<p>Q2:</p>

<p>c) roughly equal combination of genes and environment, lots of variation</p>

<p>here though => genes also contribute to personality. Intelligence only has a correlation coefficient of 0.3 with income IIRC. It decreases when you control for specific careers, moreover</p>

<p>Q3:</p>

<p>1) Mostly genetic</p>

<p>==</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>you have a very good point there - the sorting process is based on IQ tests, which tends to widen the cultural capital gap</p>

<p>That’s true, but it’s not quite what I meant (what I really meant that the choice to apply intelligence was an important force in success). Oh well.</p>

<p>As for the secondary question, which I didn’t see earlier, 4. IQ tests are pretty screwed up, and they can be taught. Plus, evidence for this viewpoint is the fact that Indian and Chinese people are very, very distantly related (about as related as Indians and Africans), and yet their IQs are similar, so this cannot be explained by common ancestry. This can be explained by an environmental trait, motivation due to culture, which is often found in immigrants. If you actually go to India or China and have people take non-culturally biased IQ tests, you will probably still see a drastic difference.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>IQ tests are less teachable than SAT tests. And while the SAT can be taught - people experience diminishing marginal utility with increasing amounts of instruction. Hence why the Collegeboard reports that the average score increase of repeat test takers is very small.</p>

<p>Of course - this could also be due to inadequate preparation tools.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Similar IQs can be explained by differing environments that produced selection pressures that favored higher intelligence irrespective of origin.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://courses.washington.edu/academy3/articles/Tyson,%20Darity,%20Castellino,%202005.pdf[/url]”>http://courses.washington.edu/academy3/articles/Tyson,%20Darity,%20Castellino,%202005.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>However, does motivation due to culture really explain all of the difference? </p>

<p>We need to isolate three variables
(a) could decreased intelligence lead to decreased motivation in the first place?
(b) a culture that values academics, but that still underperforms
(c) a culture that does not value academics, but overperforms.</p>

<p>However, (a) can prevent cultures (b) and (c) from being realized. In fact, we may never find (a), (b), or (c), and differences in intelligence due to intrinsic differences in aptitude may still exist. In any case, this poll is a poll of belief, not of debate. We will be able to isolate QTI that correlate with intelligence in the near future, which should enlighten the debate.</p>

<p>cheating </p>

<p>haha JK
Intelligence question:
2
Success question:
e</p>

<p>Secondary question:
“Races” do not exist. Even if you ignore that, this question doesn’t make any sense. Judaism is a religion (and culture), not a “race”. Anyone can practice Judaism. Many Jews are “Asian” (There are many Jews in Israel/Gaza/West Bank, Iran, etc.). Also, there are “black” and “white” Jews.</p>

<p>and IQ is pretty meaningless anyways.
There are 8 (or 9, depending on who you ask) types of intelligence, but IQ tests generally only test 3 types of intelligence.
Either way, IQ tests totally ignore most types of intelligence.</p>

<p>Race does not exist. These groups aren’t accurate. “Asian” defines a geographical origin, not a racial one, as does African. But to answer the question…2d also. I am more of a behaviorist.</p>

<p>Q3: 4 (like I said, I’m a behaviorist)
There are a lot of issues with IQ tests. They can be culturally biased. They only measure certain kinds of intelligence while disregarding other forms. Seriously, if the average for blacks is 85, that would psychologically classify them as mildly ■■■■■■■■. An entire group like that is not mildly ■■■■■■■■.</p>

<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence_(test_data)[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence_(test_data)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<h1>It’s also found in Herrnstein and Murray’s “Bell Curve”. I was fairly shocked to learn that the average IQ for blacks was 85 (though I always lived in regions with few blacks). Here though - I’m sure that blacks have social abilities that help them succeed despite their relatively lower IQs. IQs are only based on correlations anyhow</h1>

<p>Jews are an ethnic group - not a religion. <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews&lt;/a&gt;
There are quite a few scientists who are Jewish agnostics - Feynman is one for example</p>

<p>What’s your source for the average IQ stats?</p>

<p>Judaism is a religion.
I could convert to Judaism if I wanted to (and if they accepted me, etc.)
<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Judaism[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Judaism&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There is a Jewish ethnic group AND a Jewish religion.</p>

<p>The same word is used for merely HISTORICAL REASONS.</p>

<p>There are quite a few Jewish atheists/agnostics - Steven Pinker, Feynman, David Horowitz, etc…</p>

<p>==</p>

<p>Sources:
<a href=“http://www.michna.com/intelligence.htm[/url]”>http://www.michna.com/intelligence.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>(this is a report that is CRITICAL of the Bell Curve - it still accepts the test data)

</p>

<p>Intelligence:

  1. Mostly genetic</p>

<p>Most studies have indicated that an individual’s intelligence is somewhere around 40-80% inherited. This isn’t really in dispute.</p>

<p>Success:
c) roughly equal combination of genes and environment, lots of variation</p>

<p>Success isn’t perfectly related to IQ. If we define success as income, there’s approximately a .4 to .5 correlation between the two, and as IQ increases, the correlation tends to decrease. Though this might at first seem counter-intuitive, keep in mind that the smartest people often enter such relatively low paying careers fields as the sciences, whereas those who are slightly lower on the IQ scale tend to do pure business in greater propensity and make more money (not saying that there aren’t extremely smart people in business).</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This is a tough question. I believe that the answer lies somewhere between “mostly genetic” and “roughly equal combination of genes and environment, lots of variation,” and only tentatively at that. The issue is extremely contentious, and it’s difficult to isolate the genetic and environmental differences between the races. Here’s a suggestion by Charles Murray in a recent issue of Commentary that might help shed some light on the issue:</p>

<p>

[quote]
The abbreviated version is this: a substantial proportion of IQ is shaped by environmental influences, but not the kind of environmental influences that first come to mind. Such things as reading to children, having many books in the house, and valuing education actually have a small causal role. The big factors are genes and the “nonshared environment”— a m</p>

<p>I think it’s ridiculous that (some of) you guys are still stuck in the idea that blacks have lower IQs because of inferior genetics. Race is a farse, nonexistant, something we came up with to assert our superiority over others.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I understand where you’re coming from, but piles upon piles of research have found genetic differences between races with respect to all sorts of things. It’s definitely a real, biological concept.</p>

<p>Now, it’s certainly possible that one of these differences is intelligence. Here, the research is more speculative, but it’s a possibility, and not one to be discounted because of past racism.</p>

<p>

-Aristotle</p>

<p>

QFT
some people really need to take a human geography class</p>

<p>Fact: Asians are far more likely to become lactose intolerant than other races. Scandinavians have the lowest rates
Fact: There are drugs specialized to treat illnesses in African Americans
Fact: Some races are more susceptible to diabetes than others. The Pima Indians, for example, have astonishingly high rates of diabetes
Fact: African Americans have far higher rates of high blood pressure and associated complications than people of other races
Fact: Asian Americans have the lowest rates of breast cancer among all races.</p>

<p>This is just a small amount of the epidemiological research regarding differences among races. The fact is - humans have evolved to fit in with different environments - and yes - selection pressures of small amounts can act to form differences such as these. We cannot rule out intelligence as one of those differences. The Human Genome has just been sequenced - and we are already identifying differences in genes between different populations. One example:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/08/20/are-americans-hyperactive-neanderthals.html[/url]”>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/08/20/are-americans-hyperactive-neanderthals.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

</p>

<p>1) Races don’t exist.</p>

<p>“Because race is a biological concept referring to a genetically and geographically distinct subgroup of a species, there are today no such things as races within our human species. There are, however, genetic differences between members of the species as a consequence of an earlier period of isoalation in groups in different environment. Biologically, these differences are not sufficient to merit designation as races. These biological facts are of basic importance. They immediately inform us, for example, that it is incorrect to equate a cultural group with a racial group. Thus, there is a Jewish religion but not a Jewish race. Similarly, there are Aryan languages but not an Aryan race. In brief, there is no human group in which all members are genetically alike. There are no races within our human species.” source: Human Geography by Norton
2) To repeat what someone on the last page said, Asia,Africa,India,etc. are regions.</p>

<p>Argh! I don’t get it. The controversy is so impossibly great. On the one hand, you have [this[/url</a>], and on the other hand, you have [url=<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study]this[/url”>Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study - Wikipedia]this[/url</a>]. Researchers on both sides tend to be quite partisan, and I don’t know if a consensus will ever be reached. Furthermore, I don’t think that we as high schoolers are particularly qualified to debate the issue; many of the facts are quite esoteric and statistical, and unless there are published researchers debating on this forum (which I tend to doubt), I’ll reserve my commentary, save for the following:</p>

<p>@goodusername</p>

<p>Textbooks, especially those written by sole researchers, can certainly express a partisan viewpoint. Apparently, however,</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/gill.html[/url]”>NOVA Online | Mystery of the First Americans | A proponent's perspective](<a href=“http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/studies/report-43536.html]this[/url”>Black-White-East Asian IQ differences at least 50% genetic, major law review journal concludes - Innovations Report)</a></p>

<p><a href=“The Record - The Source - Washington University in St. Louis”>The Record - The Source - Washington University in St. Louis;

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