<p>whao… muz be a chick magnet.</p>
<p>Renhua is from HCJC, and I actually met him a few times in person. He was in my OCS batch a number of years ago and he seemed like a pretty nice guy. Some of my friends who know him better say the same thing.</p>
<p>But yes I would argue that he would be the exception rather than the rule when it comes to transfering to a good US university. I think usually schools tend to look at ‘expected donation’. That said I think that it’s a great achievement that he managed to transfer to Wharton.</p>
<p>The question that the OP should be asking is how accredited SMU is as compared to his other choices. I would say that it is probably the most career oriented business school of the three in Singapore, and hence it is not a bad place to try to get an ibanking job or something along those lines. However, to say that it is world renowned is a very big stretch. The typical executive in a US or UK firm would not have heard of it. Maybe HK or Australia.</p>
<p>By the way, I would be very surprised if Kwek Leng Beng’s nephew isn’t making 100k a year. Like someone said earlier, connections count. 100k is the typical pay of a first year ibanker or trader who is working in NYC/Chicago/London/Hong Kong. This arises because people working in these areas are on a global pay scheme. Again, I would argue that he is the exception and not the rule as every year, a handful of the top graduates will get these positions. Compare this to the better US business schools where many more students will be hired into these highly selective vocations.</p>
<p>So to reiterate, while SMU is a good school, it is hardly world renowned. If your choice is between the three Singaporean schools and you want to do ibanking, then you won’t go far wrong with SMU. On the other hand, if you have other choices, you will probably have to weigh in different factors.</p>
<p>Okay, what i always think right now is that whether the degree that comes from SMU will be certainly recognized by other institutions in the US when i am about to take my master. This is the case, since, I, probably later after SMU, will take the master may be in US or UK - So, i wonder if the this degree is accredited in term of later study not for working environment. Although, i might think that i still can do working in Singapore as well, but i will always feel more convinient to pursue another master in the US as well.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think this is so much attributed to the qualities of the universities but rather has to do with the students themselves. SMU’s first few batches of students aren’t exactly top-notch in terms of academic results (A levels) but yet they out-performed NUS/NTU when it comes to the graduate employment survey, with a few students clinching those highly coverted jobs. This speaks a lot about the “value” SMU adds into their students, doesn’t it?</p>
<p>levin343: Again I would recommend that you compare SMU with the other choices that you have. Are you comparing it against the other Singaporean universities, or do you have other choices as well? I don’t think that going to SMU will prevent you from doing your Master’s overseas, but what are your other options? Also, when you say Master’s, are you referring to an MBA? Remember that career experience is very important when it comes to MBA entry, so this is yet another reason for you to worry about how accredited the degree is for employment.</p>
<p>kenyon_10: I don’t think that one can attribute the trend of hiring in the US universities solely to the quality of students. Personally, I can attest to the brand name of the school and how it helps in hiring. At Wharton et al, even at a school like Indiana’s Kelley where students are definitely not top notch, many students go into ibanking and the like, and in this scenario, you can say that the brand recognition of these schools has made their graduates more employable. </p>
<p>In the case of SMU vs NUS/NTU, if 10 people get highly coveted jobs as opposed to 5, I don’t think that one can conclude that SMU adds that much value to students. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t. One has to look at each individual candidate, e.g were they good students themselves while taking the A levels, or do they have connections through relatives/friends? I don’t think that one can just look at general statistics and apply it to the whole cohort.</p>
<p>I will say again that SMU is the most career-oriented university for business students. As such, many undergrads there know about the various career options possible, which thus allows them to groom themselves towards a particular sector. This is where I feel SMU adds the most value as compared to NUS/NTU. I have friends from all 3 colleges, and I feel that SMU undergrads/grads are the most polished/career-prepared, especially in terms of interviewing and resume writing.</p>
<p>Interested in knowing international students from Asia who have been offered admission to the Degree courses at SMU for 2007-2008. Need to know the thresholds for Grade 12 and SAT1 scores under consideration by them.</p>
<p>wow, incredible SMU bias on this thread. I’l try and ignore the mindless rhetoric and put forward my opinion.</p>
<p>I lived in singapore for four years and travelled across the globe my entire life. Singapore was undoubtedly the best experience I ever had. If you have been to S’pore, you would have noticed two prominent features: Large Malls, Heavy Advertising with big brand names.</p>
<p>SMU is like a new institution opened in an desperate attempt to make Singapore an education hub, attract more foreigners and restore its global position as an expatriates paradise. The reason these companies “pump” such extraordinary amounts in SMU is not reflective of their academic quality. Neither is the star strudded list of professors. Its basic portfolio management.</p>
<p>SMU does not offer a brilliant education and makes several attempts to market itself. Their website has several of these commercials boasting their achievements like someone listed on their thread. They try to be different by rejecting the traditional lecture, seminar and tutorial method. Instead they propogate a laughable class of 50 students which can’t be categorized anywhere. </p>
<p>Having said that, SMU has built an excellent reputation for whatever reason. You would most definately find a job. But, if you are looking for a good education, a brilliant student body and you wish to be intellectually stimulated, then you’ve come to the wrong place. SMU simply fills in a market gap for need of the hour. You’ll definately be in the front IB offices, but only singapore and perhaps malaysia or something like that. It isn’t internationally renowned for its students and is in no way comparable to higher educational institutions in the US and the UK. </p>
<p>Benefits: Regional Brand Value, Comparatively Lower Cost, Job after graduation
Cons: Mediocre Educational Experience, Cut Throat Competition, No intellectual stimulation, ****ty campus.</p>
<p>Very much of the above are nonsense and are based on unfounded generalisation.</p>
<p>SMU receives attention in Singapore because it is a new university. As the brain child of ex-Deputy PM Tony Tan, it needs to succeed. Getting a university off the ground is not at all an easy task and the amount of lobbying the Singapore government did for SMU to get funding/sponsorship/recognition cannot be underestimated. </p>
<p>Globally, SMU does not ejoy that type of recognition that NUS receives. Renhua is an extremely exceptional case at SMU. SMU made headlines recently about an increase in application, but it was still at a level much lower than NUS. Further, the applicant pool for SMU tends to be week. According to the news, only 1/3 of the applicants managed ABB or above for A-levels.</p>
<p>SMU has this double degree programme that is becoming a fad amongst students. SMU has an applicant to place of 10 to 1 and its double degree only takes in about 10% of the incoming cohort per year, making the actual percentage of double degree offers top 1% of the applicant pool. If you feel awed by this number, however, I must remind you that it is still far far easier to get this than Oxford, where the applicant to place ratio is only 4 to 1. Many of my friends managed to get into SMU double degree program with only AAA at A-levels. (Oxford rejects over 1000+ AAAA students). This itself speaks that the competition at SMU is extremely low and the applicant cohort tends to be very weak.</p>
<p>I think someone mentioned this earlier, but i’l say it again: you can compare numbers and acceptance figures to draw conclusions on insitutions across the world. Yes, you can compare say Warwick to UCL or SMU to NUS, and Babson to Upenn using just numbers. But the reason one can do so is because they operate in the same environment and paradigm.
Using you Oxford comparison, keep in the mind that UK students are limited in their application to only 6 universities, and therefore considerably affecting the numbers. Mirror this with the United States where applicants can apply at any school they wish too.
Secondly, there isn’t as much choice within Singapore as far as “quality” education goes. Oxford, UCL, Imperial have built a reputation over the years for the actual work they do and not by manipulating numbers.
As a final word, SMU really rips you off if you have not got a scholarship. Sure, it may not be as expensive as a university in the UK and the US, but if you compare the fees to the undergraduate spending per student, SMU looses out considerably. Liberal Arts colleges in the US spend almost $75,000 per student. Add the brand value, diversity on campus, and general approach to teaching, and you’ll see the equation yourself.</p>
<p>Hey santino, I was not referring to you in my previous post. Don’t get agitated… ^^</p>
<p>For Oxbridge, there are a lot of self-selecting going on. What I mean is that a lot of students are going to get 4As for A-levels but they somehow feel that they are not elitist enough for Oxbridge hence they don’t apply for them. Frankly, the UCAS restriction of 6 universities is not a big issue.</p>
<p>Telling from my personal experience, a lot of my friends (local Singaporean JC students) got brilliant results but amongst them only an extremely small proportion apply for SMU. A lot of them don’t like the environment and culture there, since it is commonly regarded as less academic. Frankly, the only acceptable course to them at SMU is the Accountancy + ______ double degree programme. Let me explain. In Singapore, the top accountancy programme is NTU’s, which only takes 3 years, while the one at SMU takes 4 years. There is absolutely no incentive for them to go SMU instead of NTU if their offers are only single degree Accountancy. Then, Accountancy tends to be the favourite amongst good student because its grade-point cut-off tends to be the highest. There is a great difference between the cut-offs of Accountancy and Business.</p>
<p>Even with the double degree programme, however, SMU is still not attracting all the bright students. A friend of mine with AAA at A-levels had an offer from SMU for Accountancy+Econs and a single Accountancy offer from NTU. At the end, she chose the NTU offer. I believe that a lot of people also made similar decisions seeing that the double degree programme at SMU takes 2 more easiers to complete than NTU one and does not carry with it as much prestige or alumni network.</p>
<p>Finally, I would say that it is harder to get into NTU Accountancy or NUS Business than equivalent single programmes at SMU. Hence normally, SMU attracts students from the local echelon that wants to read these programmes but cannot meet the grade cut-off. A big pool of SMU applicants are actually polytechnic students.</p>
<p>To sum it up,
- only incentive for good students at SMU is the double degree programme
- incentive for bad students: easier to enter equivalent progammes than NTU/NUS</p>
<p>**DON’T GO SINGAPORE MANAGEMENT UNIVERSITY.</p>
<p>IT IS RUBBISH!**</p>
<p>what do you base your opinion on? Personal bias?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>SMU receives attention in Singapore because it is a new university. As the brain child of ex-Deputy PM Tony Tan, it needs to succeed. Getting a university off the ground is not at all an easy task and the amount of lobbying the Singapore government did for SMU to get funding/sponsorship/recognition cannot be underestimated.</p>
<p>Globally, SMU does not ejoy that type of recognition that NUS receives. Renhua is an extremely exceptional case at SMU. SMU made headlines recently about an increase in application, but it was still at a level much lower than NUS. Further, the applicant pool for SMU tends to be week. According to the news, only 1/3 of the applicants managed ABB or above for A-levels.</p>
<p>SMU has this double degree programme that is becoming a fad amongst students. SMU has an applicant to place of 10 to 1 and its double degree only takes in about 10% of the incoming cohort per year, making the actual percentage of double degree offers top 1% of the applicant pool. If you feel awed by this number, however, I must remind you that it is still far far easier to get this than Oxford, where the applicant to place ratio is only 4 to 1. Many of my friends managed to get into SMU double degree program with only AAA at A-levels. (Oxford rejects over 1000+ AAAA students). This itself speaks that the competition at SMU is extremely low and the applicant cohort tends to be very weak.</p>
<p>For Oxbridge, there are a lot of self-selecting going on. What I mean is that a lot of students are going to get 4As for A-levels but they somehow feel that they are not elitist enough for Oxbridge hence they don’t apply for them. Frankly, the UCAS restriction of 6 universities is not a big issue.</p>
<p>Telling from my personal experience, a lot of my friends (local Singaporean JC students) got brilliant results but amongst them only an extremely small proportion apply for SMU. A lot of them don’t like the environment and culture there, since it is commonly regarded as less academic. Frankly, the only acceptable course to them at SMU is the Accountancy + ______ double degree programme. Let me explain. In Singapore, the top accountancy programme is NTU’s, which only takes 3 years, while the one at SMU takes 4 years. There is absolutely no incentive for them to go SMU instead of NTU if their offers are only single degree Accountancy. Then, Accountancy tends to be the favourite amongst good student because its grade-point cut-off tends to be the highest. There is a great difference between the cut-offs of Accountancy and Business.</p>
<p>Even with the double degree programme, however, SMU is still not attracting all the bright students. A friend of mine with AAA at A-levels had an offer from SMU for Accountancy+Econs and a single Accountancy offer from NTU. At the end, she chose the NTU offer. I believe that a lot of people also made similar decisions seeing that the double degree programme at SMU takes 2 more easiers to complete than NTU one and does not carry with it as much prestige or alumni network.</p>
<p>Finally, I would say that it is harder to get into NTU Accountancy or NUS Business than equivalent single programmes at SMU. Hence normally, SMU attracts students from the local echelon that wants to read these programmes but cannot meet the grade cut-off. A big pool of SMU applicants are actually polytechnic students.</p>
<p>To sum it up,
- only incentive for good students at SMU is the double degree programme
- incentive for bad students: easier to enter equivalent progammes than NTU/NUS</p>
<p>SMU has positioned itself very well. How?</p>
<ol>
<li>There is a growing demand for undergrad business education, in Asia. </li>
<li>Younger generation is very keen to make a career in IB/PE, and consider BBA is a good path to achieve the goal!</li>
<li>A large number of Indonesians,Malaysians,Chinese, and Indians go to the US/UK/Australia, for undergrad education in Economics and Business related programs. The cost is very high and increasing exponentially. </li>
<li>NUS and NTU are very selective and not for an average student.</li>
<li>Many bright non-singaporeans, would like to settle in Singapore, if there is a path through education.</li>
</ol>
<p>SMU offers the following:</p>
<ol>
<li>One of the 3 Public Universities, fully backed by Tution Grants.</li>
<li>Associated with global brand like Wharton.</li>
<li>Fairly good opportunity for ‘exchange program’ with well known universities.</li>
<li>Getting a job is assured.</li>
<li>Singapore is very well connected by air. The city is modern. The lifestyle is far superior to other major cities in Asia. Climate is OK.</li>
<li>Singapore is emerging as a very strong finacial center in the Asia Pacific region, and the job opportunities in Commercial Banking and Investment banking are like to grow faster than rest of Asia.</li>
</ol>
<p>In my opinion, it is a win-win situation for an average student who would like to be in Southeast Asia, and enjoy the lifestyle of a very upscale city, without compromising on the career front.</p>
<p>In response to Rintu,</p>
<ol>
<li>But SMU is trying to mislead the audience by stating that its programs are similar to Wharton in the US, which is entirely not (just think about it, the student, the environment, the history, the faculty, the endowment…)</li>
<li>Precisely. Hence SMU is really a place for NUS Biz and NTU Accountancy rejects. The sad fact is that SMU makes itself quite selective to overseas applicants, and mislead the OAs into believing that SMU is world-class, when in fact it is a crap school in Singapore.</li>
<li><p>NUS and NTU are sooooo much better.</p></li>
<li><p>SMU is not entirely public. Unlike NUS/NTU, it is a semi-private university. It does not have access to our A-level result, health records, etc. that NUS/NTU have. Hence SMU needs us to bring our own A-lvl cert for verification</p></li>
<li><p>Wharton? Another misleading fact from SMU. There is a link from SMU’s website to Wharton, featured prominently, but there is no link from Wharton’s website to SMU’s. </p></li>
<li><p>Well-known? NUS: partner with CFA, EQUIS, AACSB, Columbia and LSE. NTU: UIUC (top accounting program in the US), AACSB, EQUIS, AACSB(Acc), CPA(S), ICPAS, ICAEW, CPA(Aust). SMU? One alleged Wharton link, and that’s all. </p></li>
<li><p>Ya, like accounting at the Big 4. But SMU blows its success rate of placing its graduates in the Investment banks (very) out of proportion. </p></li>
<li><p>Then NUS or NTU. Why SMU?</p></li>
<li><p>To be true, Singapore is definitely losing out to Hong Kong (because of the China factor). Shanghai is fast coming up, again because of the China factor.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Good post anyway, shows why Singapore is good. But it does not show that SMU is not a crap school.</p>
<p>I know i’ve been supporting spencer in this thread, but I have to say one thing, that SMU may not offer what Wharton, Kellog and Sloan of the world do, or even NTU and NUS for that matter. But they land you a job, and offer good scholarships. For some people, where the quality of education is not so good in their country, SMU can offer a decent deal. So it might be crap, but is a gate to a world many dream off.</p>
<p>Having said that, its way wayy to selective for what it offers. The sort of grades they ask for is there way of ensuring the students graduate by the end of it. The value addition in SMU is minimal. The essay is inserted to try and imitate wharton and set themselves apart.
As for the value, I know i said they offer a decent deal. But if you can afford the UK and the US, there’s no comparision. SMU is NOT value for money in this aspect. What you get in return for a US/UK education is much more than what SMU makes you pay, especially if you’re an international. I maybe contradicting myself, but till now the job scene seems to be good. However, its only been some 2 years, and like somoene said, not everyone has brilliant connections. Make the decision based on your own perceptions and keep finances in consideration. Don’t be flattered by the advertisements on their website and suspicious links to wharton.</p>
<p>i have to say spencer11111’s posts are rather sagacious.</p>
<p>umm… well studying in a Pakistani business school, I actually wanted to transfer to Singapore to complete my BS Economics & Finance degree (I’ve completed one year so far with 3.26 and 3.68 GPA respectively for the two semesters)</p>
<p>SMU came to mind first. Now after all this discussion I’m so confused. And also, I wanted to know the chances of transfer students (from a university which is not associated to SMU)</p>
<p>spencer11111, SMU hater…
if ppl ask about UniSIM or any of the Uni that setup programs in DL… I bet you condemn it to nothing!</p>
<p>I heard SMU grade inflation is getting very bad… some day worst than American Colleges. how true is that?</p>
<p>“But SMU is trying to mislead the audience by stating that its programs are similar to Wharton in the US, which is entirely not”, similar does not mean identical. ppl read and jump on the wrong conclusion.</p>
<p>vandi_loyd,</p>
<p>I heard that at India there is this IIM. Heard it is quite good. Singapore is also a good choice. For business, I recommend NUS. You can also consider the business schools in HK, esp. like HKUST. HK business schools tops asia pacific rankings regularly.</p>