Re post 17–Demo–There are laws for everything. Enforcement of those laws is not always forthcoming nor even desired.
Sound laws–Wild party that needed closed down at 11pm due to loud music. But everybody is okay with it. They are all at the party. Does the guy in a nearby county who can’t hear it get to call the police? No. It doesn’t hurt him. It’s none of his business.
It’s New Year’s Eve and you only get music until 11pm? Yeah, right.
Fourth of July too noisy for you? You’ll need to wait until the fifth.
The girls in the dorm are dressing for a big party as a group and put a “no guys” sign on the door to the floor.
Are you going to be the one guy who thinks “I’ve got rights!” and storms the floor? How far you actually going?
What’s your facebook status tomorrow?
(Let’s just give up and say nowhere barring an emergency).
Tatin–
Should public places have “women’s only” spaces? Absolutely. If guys want them, they can ask for it. Women want it and have asked.
(One thing that HAS come about in society is the “family restroom” which was asked for from both sexes with excellent reasons and now is ubiquitous.)
TG.-I don’t understand how you can separate sports teams and lactation rooms from your argument for public space.as you present it. In the same way that women can’t compete with men in football or need a lactation room are the same reasons they request the “women’s only” study room. They need it because in a very gender specific way they don’t want to compete with men for their space, And if you haven’t been on a plane or in society lately…guys take up all the space they can. And they can take it emotionally also. Not all of course. But you wouldn’t even be studying here if it didn’t apply to you.
And IT IS SO EASY TO ACCOMMODATE! Why make a big deal of it? What does an opposing party win except to make the losing side unhappy?
I needed a “lactation” room long ago when the only available option from public space was a dirty bathroom. And I decided I and my newborn deserved a ton more than that.
I was a “NON-volunteer” in the social war. I didn’t take a stand on anything but I did tell a security guard at the mall that he could go to hell when he said I needed to go elsewhere to feed my kid. I was sitting peacefully at the fountain in a half empty mall with a friend… Totally covered. Never been so mad.
Now there are some great spots to retreat to.
There are very distinct differences in gender. One is physical strength. Another is aggression.
@Demosthenes49@TatinG So interesting to me that the basic premise against this all womens lounge started off with there being no rhyme or reason, no cause, no right, for females to affiliate in such an exclusionary manner. They are just students. Generic students. Shapeless faceless sexless. And in fact there is no purpose in modern day America for girls and women to “play the female card”. To distinguish them in any way, especially on the basis of their sex, violates very high moral principles, and exposes the females as hypocrites chasing SPECIAL privileges (spoken with the same loaded slur and head tilt as Dana Carvey’s Church Lady.)
But the real crux of your objection here is that this SPECIAL ROOM is at a public institution and therefore must be impermissible state action with public funds. Fine when done by private institutions, both secular and religious. Sororities and convents just aren’t as SPECIAL as a study lounge.
Can we call it “gules”, like “I’m on gules, you can’t touch me?” (from the kid’s game of tag).
My safe space is anywhere I decide it is, and I’ll kick your ass if you think it’s not. Really, who thinks we’re such a bunch of fainting daisies that we need to be locked in a room. Ridiculous.
@MotherOfDragons Great rebuttal. For a second I thought you were going to say that because lesbians could make unwanted advances on straight women in the lounge there are truly no “women safe spaces”. Your karate chop makes more sense as a reason.
@gouf78: I’m not really understanding your point here. You’re saying that you don’t think that enforcement of the law is desirable, and therefore MSU should also disregard it? Can you see why MSU might not find your dislike of the law compelling?
@Oregon2016: I’m a little confused why you’re talking about sororities as if I had mentioned them. It appears to me you invented a position, decided I held it, then decided it made me a hypocrite. Can you appreciate why I might not find that persuasive?
In case you’re actually curious, I’m happy to explain. Sororities are different than study halls because sororities are private clubs. You’re welcome to start private clubs with any exclusions you like (see, e.g., the KKK). State actors, like state universities, are limited in two significant ways. First, if they take federal money (e.g., federal student loans) then they must abide by Title IX. Second, as state actors they are subject to the equal protection provisions of the 14th Amendment. In this case, MSU had a room in which it discriminated on the basis of gender. Someone brought this up to them. They reviewed it, realized it didn’t comply with either Title IX or (presumably they also reviewed this) the 14th Amendment, and changed the room. I don’t see compliance with federal non-discrimination law as a bad thing. I’m a little surprised anyone does.
kidde, re your post #3, I think it would be really interesting to have a list of campuses where women feel safe in the library at all hours, and presumably also safe while returning to their dorm rooms/apartments.
The only university where I have been and have felt safe in that situation is overseas.
I am surprised that MSU didn’t adopt (or perhaps didn’t think of) making the study open to everyone, but themed.
Call it the Eleanor Roosevelt Gender Equity Memorial Lounge, or something. Chances are, you aren’t going to have a big problem with guys showing up there to bug/hit on the women.
I recommend they carve out some space in one of the women’s dorms (they still exist don’t they?) for the women’s study lounge. Alternatively, issue pepper spray to every incoming freshwoman. (Do we still call college women “co-eds”?) If one polite request to be left alone to study in peace is ignored, spray him in the face.
@MotherOfDragons did you watch the TV show “Brain Dead” the other night? Your post reminded me of a scene in that show - and then I turned it off.
Well it was Northeastern in Boston I referred to. If a student didn’t feel safe walking back to their room the student could call campus security and get a free escort 24/7 - my daughter never used that service and walked comfortably on campus at 2 or 3 am many nights (BTW they will even provide escort service to off campus apartments).
Since this was my daughter’s experience I assumed that other colleges felt the same and provided similar security.
Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT? Does anyone know if these have escort services back to the dorms? In the time frame of my experience, Harvard, Yale, and Stanford did not have this service. I don’t know that most large state universities have it, either.
Every school we visited had an escort service. Most students figure out their own method, traveling with a friend to the library or a roommate to the dining hall, but they are there if you need them. Many schools have a ‘blue light’ system of safety phones all over campus and you can call for help.
My school had the service 40 years ago. Many use a golf cart or even an auto. Sue Heck used the service on her campus on The Middle.