Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity?

Parent Cafe
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<p>This is a summary of the talk he gave. I recommend watching the video though as I probably won’t do it justice.</p>

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<p>It made me wonder about many things. I still can’t get the talk out of my mind. Perhaps it’s become in some ways I feel I became a victim of this (and most of us probably are). When I was a kid, I used to enjoy art and draw. However the last time I had a serious art teacher was in 5th grade. From that point on, my interest in art died for two reasons: 1) I got my first computer which created a brand new interest for me in technology and 2) there simply was no one out there to help me develop whatever artistic abilities I had at that age. And so I look back and look at where I am now. I am studying something I enjoy. But I do it because it’s practical too. And I’ve had friends say the same thing when changing majors. I had one friend in particular who was majoring in Latin or perhaps it was Classical history. He didn’t finish it though because it simply wasn’t practical for any sort of job. He still had a great interest in it, but he soon learned that in today’s world that’s what we call a “hobby”. And he’s right. In today’s world, many of the things we enjoy, most likely could not get us jobs. However think of a world where we could go deep into the things we enjoy and do them because we simply enjoy them. In today’s world we work on things we do not enjoy because they pay us well enough. It’s a practical reason. But how far can that get us into the future.</p>

<p>Think about this:
Since the 18th century we have arguably yet to have anyone as influential or famous as Beethoven in music. Why is that? Do the same for any other area that does not include the math/sciences and languages.</p>

<p>Surely times change. But you’d think that with the more people born into the world each day, the better the chance of a great mind being born. And yet it seems as if quite the opposite has occurred. Or maybe there’s just so many of us that the new ideas that individuals come up with get overshadowed by the work of others. Needless to say we shouldn’t have to think or look hard about the influential people in our life time. One should be able to mention the names like: Newton, Mozart, Beethoven, Galileo, Freud, Einstein, Socrates, Plato, Michelangelo, DaVinci, Shakespeare, Twain, among others I probably can’t think of right now, for our life time.</p>

<p>And why is it that in today’s world, when someone cannot cut it, in school they are either diagnosed with some condition or are simply dismissed as being unintelligent or uncreative? Or worse, they are given advantages to help them succeed in school thru the use of these conditions. I have a cousin, who completely failed at school. He dropped out early as a kid. He’s certainly not perfect, but he has a passion for making music. It’s weird, before watching this video, I would have said my cousin just isn’t very intelligent. But if I had to do what he does, I wouldn’t be able to. Likewise, there’s a student in one of my classes who’s physical disabled, but incredibly smart. You wouldn’t get that impression from him just from seeing him though.</p>

<p>It’s quite interesting the world of education works and how it affects our lives. Many of the great points that Robinson makes just simply will get ignored in educational systems.</p>

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<p>It is well worth your time to watch this video. Not only is he entertaining and amusing, he is right. His message is important. I am going to comment more later; he offers up a lot to be digested. I’m the mom of a highly creative child (now an 18-year-old) whom I often do not give enough space to fully nurture his creativity, I’m sure. It is hard for me to understand his life approach at times, since I am very unlike him. However I always strive respect the inborn drive he has to create, to think, to experience, to process in his own unique way. And I have always appreciated him, and the way that he is wildly different from me. Sometimes I feel like I can literally see the tiniest slice of what some of the most radical people of their times must have been like. Okay, that’s it for now. Thanks BP-TheGuy88 for the post. More later…</p>

<p>This guy nails it.</p>

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<p>Geez, just re-read what I wrote, and I hope whoever is reading my original post can understand it.</p>

<p>JDA 1990: Hope to here your response on it.</p>

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<p>Schools kill creativity. Jobs kill creativity. Keeping up my house kills MY creativity. It’s amazing that anything creative gets done…</p>

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<p>Seeing as the video got yanked. To find it go on youtube and search: “Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity?”</p>

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<p>Here’s a direct link from TED: [Ken</a> Robinson says schools kill creativity | Video on TED.com](<a href=“http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html]Ken”>http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html)</p>

<p>This is not a Youtube or Private blog link.</p>

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<p>There are probably more people doing art and music than there ever were. Has “classical” music hit a wall–maybe. But all sorts of other new music continue to develop. Same for art.</p>

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<p>Thanks BP-TheGuy88!</p>

<p>I read your unedited post yesterday (so you see, it was not all for naught!) but didn’t have time to find the link, so came back today to get the info for that.<br>
This pertains to an ongoing discussion at my house, so it is timely and food for thought, for me.</p>

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<p>Classical music, whether in quotes or not, has not “hit a wall.” I had lunch today with two classical music composers; one of them happens to be my husband!</p>

<p>There are plenty of influential composers around. Elliot Carter’s one of them; his 100th birthday is coming up in a few days, and is scheduled to be at a concert next weekend which features some of his music. Yes, he’s still composing! [Carter</a> Centenary Home](<a href=“http://www.carter100.com/index.html]Carter”>http://www.carter100.com/index.html)</p>

<p>That said, yes, schools DO kill creativity.</p>

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<p>Well, many, many homeschoolers agree with Sir Ken Robinson and that’s why we’ve taken a different path. I just wanted learning to be about passion and not about memorizing what it would take to get a grade. It’s been exciting to see how differently our children view learning than I did. </p>

<p>BTW, Thomas Edison was sent home from school as “uneducably mentally ■■■■■■■■”. His mother thought otherwise and taught him/ encouraged him to learn. Definitely a fantastic example of this topic.</p>

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<p>I just wanted to resurrect this thread because I read his book earlier this year, I was thinking about it when I posted on another thread just now…and well I think everyone should at least watch the video (see post #6). Even if you don’t agree with it-- and I’d love to hear from those that don’t-- its very funny. </p>

<p>I personally think he’s entirely on the mark, and its why this is one of the most popular-ever TED videos. Now if only we started to do more than just say he’s right. This video has now been sent to every teacher in my childrens’ school to watch (yeah!).</p>

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<p>I’m reading his book right now and the more I read, the more frustrated I’m getting with my elementary age child’s school. She’s a creative type who now doesn’t seem to have the attention span to finish a project. She’s so used to bouncing around every 15-20 minutes on to another activity. </p>

<p>My S, a HS sr., is also creative. He was so bored in school but we mistook his poor performance as laziness and disorganization. It made for years of nagging and frustration until he just decided to give in. Now, he gets his work done in record time and proceeds with playing his guitar. </p>

<p>I’m starting to feel very guilty for not understanding my children and their passions. It’s not too late for my young one and I hope it isn’t for my S, either.</p>

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<p>lilmom, check out the Sleep series on Nova. REM sleep gives a person a slight edge in creativity. No wonder, my oldest loves to sleep late.</p>

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<p>You think Beethoven lived in a time when creativity was encouraged?</p>

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<p>thanks for resurrecting this, starbright. This has to be one of the best TED talks.</p>

<p>OP, I think you were very clear and writing from the heart. </p>

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<p>Oh, I think the world is full of geniuses, maybe now more than ever, because now the contributions of women and minorities can join the ranks. But off the top of my head:</p>

<p>Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, the Google guys, Tom Stoppard, David Mamet, Jonathan Franzen, Maya Angelou, David Foster Wallace, Dave Eggers, Maya Lin, Amy Tan, George Lucas…</p>

<p>And in classical music:
Aarvo Paert, Gorecki, Menotti, Philip Glass, Peter Schickele (yes, I think he’s a genius!)…</p>

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<p>I missed this discussion first time around!</p>

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<p>I would suggest that the Beatles were as famous and influential. </p>

<p>I also think that the creativity to come up with things like television or Internet are not insignificant. My H is an engineer. He uses calculus and physics daily, and tends to see things in a very logical and non-emotional manner. And yet he is one of the most creative people I know, and I have his patent awards hanging on the wall of my office to prove it.</p>

<p>I would phrase the question perhaps a bit differently: Do schools and teachers discourage that which they themselves cannot do?</p>

<p>As most of you know, two of my kids are in “creative” (ie. arts) fields. I could list on and on the roadblocks the schools set up to discourage them in their pursuit of music. And yet, my eldest had similar roadblocks. Teachers who kept him too busy with meaningless, rote work to allow him to explore at deeper levels the things he cared about. The fifth grade teacher who refused to let him explore math at a deeper level because she didn’t understand it. The teacher in his gifted class that thought being gifted meant you got more than 24 hours each day, and kept them so busy with coloring projects that no one learned anything. And so on.</p>

<p>Schools have to be all things to all people, and it takes a fair amount of parents’ time and effort to supplement that with what the individual needs. My kids are musicians, not necessarily because of what the school did or didn’t do, but because of what we did outside of school.</p>

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<p>I think it’s because creativity has become democratized, by which I mean that it’s a lot easier for someone to be creative now than it was 100 or 300 years ago. In the past, nearly everyone had a choice between laboring or starving to death. Only a fortunate few who were patronized by wealthy benefactors had the luxury of time to create great music, paintings, sculptures, novels, etc.</p>

<p>Today, a musician can pay the bills with a job at McDonald’s while still spending 30 hours a week creating music with affordable equipment from Best Buy and disseminating it worldwide via the Web. As a result, there are probably thousands of people just as creative as Beethoven composing original music today, but no one notices because there are thousands instead of just a few (not to mention hundreds of thousands whose music stinks).</p>

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<p>As an art teacher with 15 years teaching experience in the public schools, I agree that there are many obstacles that stand in the way of creativity. The video validates everything that I believe about the role of the arts in education. The hierarchy of subject areas exists at such a profound level that most educators are not even aware that they subscribe to it and reinforce it. I hear endless comments from adults that illustrate a lack of understanding about the true objectives of a fine arts program. Most notably, art is a wonderful “break” from academics…art is great for the kids that don’t have any other strenghths…anyone can teach art because, you know, its not hard and anything goes in the art room…</p>

<p>It is a part of my job to raise the awareness of the true nature of what i try to do in my classroom. I believe that art is for every child and that every child can succeed. Some will do so more easily than others but isn’t that true of every subject area? I also agree that creative thinking is going to become more and more desirable and a rarer commodity than ever as the public schools persist in testing all of the originality out of our kids. </p>

<p>Those of us that care deeply about this issue will never give up on it, though</p>

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<p>When I was a substitute teacher, an elementary art teacher shared with me what her principal told her: “You aren’t a real teacher.” The principal had just told her that the 40 minutes a week she got with each class could be skipped if the classroom teacher (the “real” teacher, I guess) had something more important to do with her class. That sort of says it all …</p>

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<p>Kelsmom,
That is a dramatic example of what I mean. I am fortunate in that I work in a school where my principal does value and support what I do but some of my previous experiences as an art teacher would curl your hair. Once, another art teacher shared a cartoon with me that showed an art teacher being taken out of a school on a stretcher by EMTs. In the foreground of the picture two classroom teachers are watching the emergency and one says to the other one “Well, it looks like we won’t get our prep period today.” All of the art teachers who saw it thought it was hysterically funny because they understood the sad exaggerated truth of the cartoon. The arts are often looked at as a break for both the student and the classroom teachers since our presence in the building guarantees the classroom teachers their contractual prep time away form their students.</p>

<p>I must sound negative about my job and, truly, I am not. I love my job and consider myself very fortunate to be in a position to offer students the art education that I believe is fundamental to their health and development, but sometimes the battle scars get to be a bit too much to bear.</p>