The OP claimed that going to a “non-elite” school would close doors when it comes to employment; others have expanded on that by claiming that post-collegiate employment options are necessarily greater for graduates of “elite schools”. So, two things that have been pointed out over and over (and over) here:
(1) Yes, there are companies that only recruit at elite (whatever that means) schools. That is not in dispute on this thread.
(2) There are also companies that only recruit at non-elite (again, whatever than means) schools. I’m pretty sure, though not absolutely certain, that that is also not in dispute on this thread.
What has not been demonstrated is that post-collegiate employment options are narrower for graduates of non-elite schools, particularly when students of similar abilities (particularly precollegiate abilities) and drive are compared. Repeated claims to that effect based on (1) do not actually provide support for that claim, because they ignore (2).
(I believe, based on my reading of the evidence on postcollegiate employment rates and salaries, that it’s actually a wash. I will readily admit, though, that I don’t have direct access to the data that supports that conclusion.)
“Why anyone would actually want to work for a company that hired exclusively based on school ranking is beyond me. To each his own I suppose”
If such company happened to be a “hot” company in a sexy industry (eg recent successful tech startup) with seemingly unlimited upside, spacious offices located in a great city, liberal working conditions,doing absolutely state-of-the-art, cutting edge work, then somebody might want to work there. Not because of those hiring practices per se, but because the company seems like a highly desirable place to work, whatever its hiring practices. But it just might happen that those are that company’s hiring practices. Of course their “ranking” would be industry-informed, not US News per se,
[recently back from visiting on the west coast, California dreaming…]
@dfbdfb Exactly… Let’s also not forget the effect that location has on starting pay for graduates of various “caliber” schools. If graduates from “elite” universities are, by and large, taking jobs in big, high cost-of-living cities all over the US, their average starting pay numbers will likely be higher than graduates from New Mexico State university working at government labs around New Mexico.
Many, many students (based on what I’ve witnessed on these forums) fail to take into account just how much cost of living can impact those starting salaries. $320k in NYC is equivalent to $140k in areas like Houston. An entry-level Petroleum engineer from University of Houston can make well over $140k starting out. This is just one example obviously.
"An entry-level Petroleum engineer from University of Houston can make well over $140k starting out. "
But he has to live in Houston.
And for his “field trips” he’s got to go camp out at some remote, forsaken oil field, not major cities across the US.
I imagine many residents on the coasts would require higher compensation to move there, not lower compensation.
Come to think of it, I’m not sure Houston even exists. I’ll have to check my Atlas again.
One would think, from the direction this thread has taken, that elite colleges were purely vocational schools for high paying employment. It’s really sad to see the whole concept of an elite education narrowed to questions of corporate recruitment and starting pay.
That’s what many of you focused on. I, for one, cited that as one feature (of a particular job/industry that was discussed),but then also cited : working on more impactful matters, hot start-ups,state-of-the art matters. Let me add fast-paced, dynamic, exciting work environment.
There are other industries that are also advantaged where pay is not so big a feature. For example, perhaps more up your alley, top program PhDs in fields such as Philosophy & Mathematics tend to come from top undergrad schools, or so I’ve read. Tha’ts not so much about money. Happy now?
Silicon Valley companies also may have SJSU, UCSC, and UCD on their recruiting lists, for local convenience. For travel recruiting, super-prestige schools other than MIT and CMU might not be as commonly found on the lists as schools like Stony Brook, North Carolina State, etc…
From what I have read here and elsewhere, this is the case, but specific to whether the given philosophy or math department produces graduates who are seen by the PhD program as suitable PhD students. These “rankings” may not necessarily match popular school rankings that correlate mostly with selectivity.
I don’t get that impression. I think it’s just easier to base an argument on hard employment facts than something abstract like comparing rigor of Ethiopian Music history classes…
In my reasonably reputable STEM department, elite private and top public research Us (not necessarily the so-called flagships on CC) supply about 80% of our domestic doctoral students, top LAC ~10%, and other schools ~10%. Most students enter with BS only, while those from “other schools” more likely to have MS degrees.
@dfbdfb, what I stated was that doors in certain sectors, narrow as they may be, are closed to graduates of non-elite schools.
That’s a fact. Whether or not it’s fair is disputable, though.
For people such as PizzaMom who are showing reverse snobbery by labeling graduates of elite schools who head towards elite firms after graduation, at least in my experience:
(1) Elite firms pay better, particularly in entry-level jobs for college graduates. Your lifetime earnings are impacted by your starting salary (i.e., how much you make in subsequent jobs flows from how much you make in your first job), so it makes sense to start out by making as much as you can.
(2) Elite firms’ names on resumes provide a “seal of approval” on a resume that opens doors for future jobs.
(3) Elite firms engage in higher-profile work. For example, look at today’s New York Times; the two banks handling the Kraft/Heinz merger are not Goldman Sachs, and it’s pointed out how rare that is.
(4) Elite firms have better benefits.
(5) Elite firms also have more support staff and employee assistance.
So heading to an elite firm is not a sign of being “provincial”; it’s a sign of wanting to make money, do sophisticated work and have another name on a resume that will open doors.
I used to work for for Cargill back when and got hired with both a BA and an MA from an Ivy. I got the job by (gasp) applying at the corporate headquarters. I know a guy who got an MBA at Cal and really wanted to work on Wall Street, but the big firms weren’t recruiting at Cal. So, he went to New York, started knocking on doors, and he did indeed wind up at an investment banking firm. Who cares where they recruit. I have no doubt that elite schools open doors, but I do not believe that non-elite schools close them. It’s the kid, not the school that gets hired, and therereally are great kids at non-elite schools.
Affluent parents with resources are often those who most push the idea that the school ranking doesn’t matter. Well, it matter less for them precisely because they have money and connections. Not only has research shown that URM’s and low SES kids benefit most from attending an elite school, but the post above shows another reason why. How simple you make it sound for a Calif. student to just go to NY and look for a job. As if the desire to do it were all it would take.
We come from a middle middle class family who couldn’t have afforded to send our D to Stanford had someone else not offered to pay her plan fare. She did not come home for Thanksgiving or spring breaks. So I can guarantee you that during senior year of college she would not have simply been able to pay to fly to NY, rent a hotel, and knock on doors for as long as it took to find a job, nor wait until after she graduated to come back to the NE and then start looking in NY because she had loans coming due and interest she was having to pay on them already…with no job. As it was, she had to turn down actual interviews far from campus if the company did not offer transportation reimbursement. Also, those who say it’s not a big deal or financial burden to have a non-self-supporting adult child living at home rent- free (while s/he pounds the pavement in NYC for months or works for free to advance his/her career) also are folks with resources for whom the extra groceries and utilities is a drop in the bucket. I know people who pay their working adult children’s apartment rent and car insurance while the kids work at the so-so jobs they got after going to Podunk State. That’s not possible for lower SES people.
^one thing is for sure is evident that all this hoopla about Elite palces exists mostly on east and west coasts, Midwest is pretty immune to this, with few exceptions. One anecdotal evidence is the example of our family with the same type of the straight A students who possess many interests and very social personalities and more or lees the same type of people. They have pursued and are planning to pursue very different path. While the succes is proven for the path of attending in-state public / then Grad. school, we still have to see what will happen with the yonger one who is up to pursuing prestige. As I said, all 3 are so similar, there is no question that they came from the same family. All graduated / will graduate from one of the best (or the best) HS in respective area and that seems to be a very important factor.
@TheGFG, many people (like me) are saying that going to an elite makes a difference for lower-SES kids. For them, doors very well may be closed if they don’t go (because they don’t discover new possibilities).
Lower-SES kids also won’t be paying more for an elite than another school. The folks who would be full-pay at those places can reasonably be called upper-middle-class or higher. However, it still may not make sense for them to shell out $200K more for an elite vs. full-tuition scholarship elsewhere.
I said (in this thread) that for the truly rich as well as poor/lower-middle-class (and middle middle-class, for whom full-need schools often cost less than state schools) if they get in, elite vs. other is an easy choice.
And a middle middle-class family can’t afford plane fare to CA? Can you afford vacations of any type?
BTW, I bunked at a friend’s place for a week when I interviewed in CA. I guess that is a benefit of going to an elite school (in this case, a HS).
