So, my 11th grader doesn’t want to take a science class next year. He’s a perfectly fine science student but is more interested in other things. I’m not thrilled because conventional wisdom is that selective colleges want to see 4 years of core subjects. We know that highly selective schools will be a $$ reach for us & will be focusing his list on financial safeties, but he will probably do a couple of Hail Mary applications to reachy LACs. We’d like to keep the option of those schools, however unlikely. And he’ll be applying for competitive merit scholarships at many schools–he’d like to actually be competitive.
Stats:
3.9 UW GPA
1490 SAT (retaking this spring)
almost definitely will be National Merit semifinalist
will have 8-9 APs by graduation across all core subject areas (5 on AP World History so far)
His current plan is to major in a social science (psych, political science) with maybe a minor in CS or data science. He’s already taken honors biology, physics, and chemistry–next year he wants to skip science & replace it with either AP Econ, AP CompSci A, or AP Stats. At his school seniors only take 5 classes; he won’t take a foreign language because he’s completed the highest level offered in his language.
His other 12th grade courses will be:
AP English Lit
AP Calc AB
APUSH or AP US Govt
Theater (required arts elective, plus he loves it)
Thoughts? Should I be encouraging him to take AP Bio or Environmental Science, to check the science box? Or is it no big deal for him to take CompSci/Stats/Econ instead? He’s at a big public high school & his counselor has not been super-helpful here.
It sounds like your 11th grader has a well-rounded academic profile and is considering his options carefully for his senior year. Considering his interests in social sciences and potential minor in computer science or data science, his proposed course selections for his senior year seem aligned with his academic and career aspirations.
Here are some considerations to keep in mind:
College Admissions Trends: While many selective colleges prefer to see four years of core subjects, they also value depth and consistency within a student’s chosen academic path. Your son’s rigorous course load, strong GPA, and AP courses across multiple subjects demonstrate his academic readiness and commitment.
Alignment with Future Goals: It’s important for your son to pursue courses that align with his interests and future academic/career goals. If he’s more passionate about subjects like economics, computer science, or statistics, taking AP Econ, AP CompSci A, or AP Stats could be more beneficial for his academic growth and intellectual development than another science course.
Strengths and Interests: Since your son has already taken honors biology, physics, and chemistry, he has demonstrated proficiency in the sciences. If his interests lie more in the social sciences and computer/data science, focusing on those areas could allow him to deepen his knowledge and skills in fields he finds compelling.
Admissions Strategy: While some highly selective colleges may prefer to see four years of science, admissions decisions are holistic, considering various factors beyond just course selection. Your son’s strong GPA, SAT score, extracurricular activities, essays, and letters of recommendation will also play significant roles in the admissions process.
Merit Scholarships: Participating in competitive merit scholarship programs often requires a strong academic record, demonstrated leadership, and unique achievements. Your son’s academic profile and involvement in extracurricular activities will make him competitive for merit scholarships, especially if he continues to excel in his chosen fields of study.
Ultimately, it’s important for your son to pursue courses that align with his interests, strengths, and future goals while also considering the expectations of the colleges he’s interested in applying to. Given his academic achievements and thoughtful approach to course selection, he should feel confident in pursuing the courses that best reflect his interests and aspirations for the future.
Has he taken AP CS Principles and/or AP Psychology before?
Do you know why seniors only take 5 classes- do they automatically get late arrival/early release or a period for college apps?
6 classes (including one elective) would be the norm.
He is taking AP CS Principles now & loving it. His school does not offer any psychology courses.
At his school seniors take 5 classes to leave a period for college apps (that is the official position, although I suspect that it is also to make scheduling easier–the advanced science & math classes mostly have extra blocks, i.e. AP Calc has 2 double blocks each week). They take 6 classes in grades 9-11. While it is theoretically possible for him to take 6 classes in 12th–and he might try-- in practice he is unlikely to get 6 courses scheduled that he wants. Almost no seniors take 6 classes.
If he did three years including two of lab science and bio, I believe you’ll be fine.
If you’re NMF and chasing $$ as you note, you can go free or very close to free with no admission risk or concern. Very stress free. Example u of Tulsa free, Alabama at 5 years free tuition, 4 years housing and a stipend…and others UTD, Maine and more.
Unless you’re looking at the Hail Mary vs those home runs NM schools, no reason to retake the test - assuming the NM award comes through.
Has he completed a sequence of bio, chem, and physics? If not, he should do so.
Has your S looked at the common data set for his colleges of interest (google “common data set XYZ University”)? There is a section that details the recommended/required HS coursework (I think section C-5) and you can see how many science courses each college wants.
You can check the recommendations at each college of interest, but I think at most, doing all three of Bio, Chem, and Physics plus Computer Science would be considered among their recommended options.
Like I happen to have just been looking at Stanford:
Science: three or more years of science (some examples include biology, chemistry, physics, computer science, human anatomy, and environmental science).
Yes but here what matters is what colleges want
If you already have bio chem physics you’ve covered your bases then 4th year choice isvup to you and no HS graduation requirement will trip you; what remains is college entrance requirements (which differ).
I agree. I will say that there are colleges that consider CS an elective, so neither math nor science. The point is that this class won’t make it for all schools in the count of core courses, or uwGPA.
Yeah, at our HS, CS is its own department (separate from both Math and Science). Our STEM kids are often taking all of Math electives, Science electives, and CS electives junior and senior year.
But as the other poster noted, I think the real issue is just how colleges see it. And I personally think if you are also doing a regular Math sequence, then at least the majority of colleges would be fine with CS being your senior-year science elective (assuming you already did the foundational Bio/Chem/Physics classes).
It would not hurt to check, and indeed that is the sort of thing I made a habit of doing when possibly recommending colleges for S24 to consider. But while some colleges were more clear than Stanford that their recommendation was four years of sciences, I do not remember any saying CS could not count as one of those four years.
That said, for some specific majors/schools, they might have said something about wanting to see Calculus, and possibly Physics and Calculus (this would be for Engineering, say). So I would actually be more hesitant about swapping CS for Calculus. And I think if you particularly were interested in Engineering (not CS), and had to choose between a second Physics course and CS, you might choose the second Physics course.
But given the OP’s kid’s interests, and the fact he is already taking Calc AB, I would think at least a lot of colleges would say he is free to choose CS as his “science” elective, regardless of where the HS puts CS in terms of department.
I would consider taking AP Env Science - certainly a much more doable class than AP Bio. Both my boys took it as a senior science class and it is a very interesting class - almost more social studies focused than science.
For what it is worth, my S24 explored a LOT of reachy LACs (and was not shy about applying to them either), so that is among the categories where I ended up seeing a lot of recommended HS curriculums. Obviously I am not going to remember them all verbatim, but here is a quick sampling that feels representative to me:
Amherst:
at least three years of natural science, including one year of laboratory science
Haverford:
three years of laboratory science
Williams:
natural science . . . in four-year sequences
Vassar:
four years of . . . laboratory science
The only of those that really gives me pause is Williams. I think normally CS is considered a laboratory science but not a natural science, but as long as you have the basic Bio/Chem/Physics sequence covered, that would be three years of both. But Williams (in a very compressed statement, I note) did seem to be suggesting they want four years of specifically natural science, so maybe for them in particular there is a question.
