Slight Decrease in Number of ED Applications for Penn Class of 2016

45_Percenter · November 11, 2011, 12:38am

Some more probably will trickle in, but there are 4,510 ED applications as of now.

**Penn sees slight drop in early decision applications

The drop may be due to the reinstatement of early-action programs at Harvard and Princeton universities

By Rachel Finkel · November 10, 2011, 11:37 pm**

Penn received 4,510 early decision applications this fall, a 1.3-percent decrease from last years total of 4,571 applications.

This marks the first year since 2006 that Princeton and Harvard universities accepted applications in the early round.

Dean of Admissions Eric Furda said there might be a small causality between Penns slight decline in applications and the reinstatement of Princeton and Harvards early-action programs both of which are non-binding.

While Harvard is still finalizing its numbers, Princeton has announced that it received 3,547 applications.

Penn saw a modest decrease in applications from the Northeast and California. There was also a slight increase in applications from the Southeast and from international students, Furda said.

Overall, the initial view is that the quality of applications is up, Furda added, explaining that only 85 percent of applicants SAT scores have been entered into their system.

The level of diversity among the applicants has appeared to remain relatively flat, he said.

Although ********* College Consulting Director Michael Goran does not believe that the 61-student decrease in applications to Penn is significant, he said that his strong sense is that Princeton and Harvard had an effect on the number of early-decision applicants.

Several of Penns peer institutions saw slight increases in application numbers. Dartmouth College received 1,800 early-decision applications, a 3-percent increase from last year.

2,716 students applied early decision to Duke University, marking a 23-percent increase, while approximately 2,900 students applied early decision to Brown, which was a 4-percent increase from last year.

Harvard, Cornell, Columbia and Yale universities have not yet published their early-decision numbers.

Because of the new early-action programs, there were definitely more conflicted feelings about where to apply early this year, Goran said.

At Penn, this years decline in early-decision applications follows a 26-percent growth in early applications between 2009 and 2011.

Were pushing up against an upper limit here, Furda said, referencing the fact that Penn received more than 4,500 applications, which is more than most of its competitors.

Not only are we at the higher end, but I do think that were somewhere near the natural top of universities with the highest early-decision applicants, Furda said.

However, Furda believes Penn should be the first choice of even more people, citing lack of knowledge about the institution and the perception of the cost as reasons students may not have applied early.

When it comes to application numbers, I am never complacent, Furda said.

Last updated November 11, 2011, 12:12 am

[The</a> Daily Pennsylvanian :: Penn sees slight drop in early decision applications](<a href=“http://thedp.com/index.php/article/2011/11/penn_sees_slight_drop_in_early_decisions_applications]The”>Penn sees slight drop in early decision applications | The Daily Pennsylvanian)

Koharvard · November 11, 2011, 9:01am

Great post! Thanks for the insightful link!

45_Percenter · November 16, 2011, 10:50am

According to today’s entry on “The Choice” college admissions blog of The New York Times, Penn has now received 4,526 ED applications for the Class of 2016:

[College</a> Admissions Advice - The Choice Blog - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/]College”>http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/)

Again, this may rise a bit more as hard-copy application materials mailed from more distant regions continue to trickle in or are processed.

CountMonteCristo · November 16, 2011, 1:23pm

Good news for everyone who applied to Penn ED, including my daughter.

PrincetonDreams · November 16, 2011, 9:41pm

Unsurprising. Penn is an awful social environment, and the majority of the departments at the school are severely under-funded. I would advise, in all honesty, for applicants to stay away from this school unless there is a specific academic reason for them wanting to go there. Otherwise, it is just not worth it at all.

Let’s try to guess a few reasons for this dip in apps:

<ul>
<li>Fierce inter-school rivalry; students at different schools separating into separate social groups; students at one school looking down at those of another</li>
<li>Philadelphia - the second most dangerous major city in the United States; terribly polluted; spills over onto the campus environment</li>
<li>Huge student body; larger classes than those of comparative Ivies</li>
<li>Almost non-existent ‘brand name’; the New York Times just this week confused Penn State for Penn, and had to edit an Op-Ed piece because Penn complained about it</li>
<li>Jock culture; generally dumber students than those of other Ivies; Penn is often referred to as the ‘safety Ivy’</li>
</ul>

dfree124 · November 16, 2011, 10:06pm

I agree with the above poster, some kids at my school chose the local community college over Penn last year. It really is an awful school, isn’t it? I mean no one wants the “jock culture”, and that’s what everyone in Penn is, a jock. I bet they don’t even study at all, they just go to frat party after frat party and get wasted every night. Typical quakers… I doubt they can even find a job after college. From what I’ve heard, separation between schools in a college only happens at Penn, nowhere else. I can not believe that would ever happen! If I could, I would take Penn straight out of the Ivy League, it is clearly not worthy of being placed alongside such prestigious institutions as the other Ivys. I don’t think anyone should even bother applying there, Penn is worthless.

loldanielol · November 16, 2011, 10:38pm

Seriously, and Penn’s business school isn’t even that good.

mandypandy · November 16, 2011, 10:45pm

^I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion…I don’t agree with these posts at all though… If you’ve ever stepped on to Penn’s campus, it is absolutely stunning! And the Nursing Program is amazing. Sure, it has its weaknesses, but so does every other school. And why would someone choose a community college over Penn, an ivy-league?? Unless, the cost was an issue, I don’t really understand that.

sister277 · November 16, 2011, 10:46pm

…
I have no idea why the above 3 posts were posted in the Upenn forum
take ur hatred somewhere else. WE DONT CARE.

dfree124 · November 16, 2011, 10:53pm

DO YOU PEOPLE NOT HAVE A SENSE OF SARCASM??? Please, PLEASE, read my post over again. If a wave of sarcasm doesn’t hit you in the head like a brick, you do not know how to read. Same goes for the post below mine. Wharton is widely accepted as THE best business school in the country. You two need to learn what satire is, and fast. I really want to go to Wharton, Penn being my number one choice at the moment. I plan on applying there ED next year. I have visited, and I like the campus. My dad went there, so he gave me a great tour after the normal campus tour ended. He even drove me out to West Philadelphia (born and raised, on the playground is where I spent most of my days… etc etc) to show me what it’s like. Sure, West Philly is pretty trashy, but you don’t have to go there.

Seriously people, sarcasm, learn it, use it, understand it.

loldanielol · November 16, 2011, 10:57pm

Quick question: how will this affect the ED acceptance rate for this year? I heard from some people that Penn might accept more applicants from the ED pool, but I’m not sure why.

PrincetonDreams · November 16, 2011, 10:57pm

Now, this isn’t true lol. Although I know you were only being sarcastic, it’s still important to point it out.

The post abover yours, however, reflects the naivete of the typical high school senior, and the slightly bordering on insane politically-correct nature (“sarah lawrence college is an excellent academic institution” - a CC user… SERIOUSLY?!) of a CC poster.

LOL. No, it isn’t. For undergrad business (specifically) it’s considered good, but that’s because Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford and Columbia don’t even have undergrad b-schools.

The rest of Penn is just plain awful. Not worth more than 20k/yr imo.

45_Percenter · November 16, 2011, 11:17pm

For the record: PrincetonDreams is an anti-Penn ■■■■■ from last year. Just take a quick look at his old threads/posts and that will become readily apparent. And his “knowledge” of Penn and Philly is based on sparse and highly unreliable hearsay (a lot was based on what he supposedly heard from his college counselor in the UK, if memory serves.)

As dfree124 points out, however, both he and loldanielol were being facetious, and were merely lampooning the ludicrousness of PrincetonDream’s post.

Bottom line: ignore PrincetonDreams–he’s a worthless ■■■■■, who after 1 1/2 years apparently continues to be obsessed with trying to smear Penn in its own forum (and based on absolutely no reliable facts or data). I suspect that he’s a bitter Penn reject.

45_Percenter · November 16, 2011, 11:24pm

It shouldn’t affect it much at all. Penn always accepts slightly less than 50% of its entering class through ED, and the number of ED applications this year is–statistically speaking–virtually identical to what it was last year (after a signficant increase last year over the year before). So I’d expect an ED acceptance rate this year of around 26%, similar to last year’s.

dfree124 · November 16, 2011, 11:26pm

I was thinking the same thing 45 percenter, angry Penn reject on the loose. As for my above post, I was talking about Wharton relative to other undergrad business schools. It IS, somewhat arguably, the best undergrad business school. Sorry for not being more clear PrincetonDreams, even though you clearly knew what I was referencing.

mandypandy · November 16, 2011, 11:32pm

^Ohh gotcha… I thought something wasn’t quite right if you were actually being serious. Haha PrincetonDreams…what a ■■■■■…

45_Percenter · November 28, 2011, 7:53am

New Daily Pennsylvanian article comparing changes in Penn’s and peers’ early app numbers this year:

**Drop in early apps at Penn, peers may be tied to Harvard and Princeton

MIT, Columbia, Stanford and Yale also saw decreases

By Rachel Finkel · November 27, 2011, 10:29 pm**

This fall, the reinstatement of Harvard and Princeton universities early action programs, which were eliminated in 2006, may have contributed to diminished applicant pools for many of their competitors, including Penn.

Harvard received 4,245 early applications and Princeton received 3,547.

Penns pool decreased from last years by 0.98 percent with 4,526 applications.

Although Penns decline is marginal, it shows that Penn is tied to what goes on at Harvard and Princeton, Top Colleges educational consultant Steven Goodman said.

Many of Penns peer institutions also saw a decrease in applications. Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Columbia, Stanford and Yale universities declined by 4.72 percent, 5.68 percent, 0.83 percent and 18.01 percent respectively.

In the Ivy League, Dartmouth, Cornell and Brown universities saw slight increases in early applications. However, the most dramatic increases were see at Duke University and the University of Chicago, where applications surged by 23 percent and 25 percent, respectively.

For schools that saw fewer early applications, Harvard and Princetons early programs played a part, said Goodman, who received a masters degree from the Graduate School of Education in 1989.

Four years ago, Princeton and Harvard eliminated their early programs because they felt that they disadvantaged low-income students.

Early programs help schools find students who are better prepared to apply, and wealthy students are better prepared, Goodman said.

However, Goodman does not believe that the universities were fully committed to recruiting low-income students when they eliminated these programs.

It was a politically popular thing to say, Goodman said. But if they really cared about that, they would just make sure they recruited those students. Instead, they still focus on wealthy [high] schools.

While no loan policies are a great step in the right direction, they unfortunately create pressure not to accept low-income students, Goodman added.

Other experts, such as Principal of Lapovsky Consulting Lucie Lapovsky, disagree. Top universities are doing well in recruiting low-income students with their need-blind and no-loan policies, Lapovsky said.

For some high-school students with eyes set on Penn, Harvard and Princetons reinstatement of early programs was insignificant. 

I never really wanted to apply to Harvard said early decision Penn applicant Anna Gaebler, who is a senior at Oak Park and River Forest High School in Illinois. She added that she would not apply to Princeton because she wanted an urban campus.

Ray Halloway, a senior at Millburn High School in New Jersey, said he was never tempted to apply early to another school because he identifies with Penn more than other universities.

However, other students, who were not set on applying to a binding early decision program like Penns, may have opted for an early action school.

Harvard and Princetons restrictive early action programs which arent binding but dont allow applicants to apply early to other schools allow more flexibility without the pressure of having to commit completely, but still being able to find out early, said Kati Holland, a senior at Hinsdale Central High School in Illinois who applied early decision to Penn. 

Some believe Harvard and Princetons decision to bring back their early programs may affect Penns regular decision yield.

Dean of Admissions Eric Furda said in a previous interview that he believes Penn will probably have a higher yield rate this year, since students accepted early to Harvard and Princeton will be unlikely to apply to Penn regular decision.

Those who are accepted into Penn early decision will be bound to attend the school. 

The policy of having a greater acceptance rate during the early decision cycle benefits the students who apply and it benefits the planners of the university, Goodman said. You have more students who want to be there.

Last updated November 28, 2011, 1:56 am

[The</a> Daily Pennsylvanian :: Drop in early apps at Penn, peers may be tied to Harvard and Princeton](<a href=“http://thedp.com/index.php/article/2011/11/drops_in_early_apps_at_penn_peers_may_be_tied_to_harvard_and_princeton]The”>Drop in early apps at Penn, peers may be tied to Harvard and Princeton | The Daily Pennsylvanian)

Slight Decrease in Number of ED Applications for Penn Class of 2016

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