Slower-paced, 2E, unschooled, paradoxical perfectionist...it's complicated!

A question that hasn’t been asked or answered that I have seen is the reason for part-time. Why? The answer to that (does not need to be shared) may help someone better equipped with the larger picture offer more appropriate guidance. If the goal is a job, then ability to function needs to match the desire. (Which is how I read the Peace Corps response.)

I think career counseling prior to leaping toward a specific college or degree might yield better long term outcomes.

CLEP is great once he’s got a goal and a plan. Right now, throwing new and different ways of him NOT clarifying his educational or professional goals seems to me to be a giant red herring and potential waste of time (opportunity cost, not suggesting that the material in any way is a waste of time.)

There are late bloomers in the world, and then there are people who for complex reasons (mental health, physical health, substance abuse, upbringing/culture, socio-economic limitations) fail to launch or launch at some point but never really get in gear or enjoy what they end up doing.

You sound like a fantastic and supportive parent. Your son is very lucky. Just make sure you guys keep your eye on the ball so he doesn’t end up 40 years old in a dead end job which he hates but has to keep because your financial support ran out 10 years earlier, cursing himself for not having developed a plan in his 20’s.

If he’s getting A’s in calculus, I think you can take a math limitation/dislike off the table as an issue.

So you’re really down to slow processing speed, intense perfectionism, and a dislike of personal/essay type writing as his issues? Has he tried a therapist with expertise in CBT? Seems like if he can get a handle on the perfectionism, he’s going to look more and more like a large percentage of the college bound population!

@inthegarden And I had mentioned atypical for my cousin who was in the Peace Corps for years. He actually has a doctorate from Harvard. The Peace Corps decided to take him even though he was not perfection. I saw growth in this kid. From excelling at math that he refused to take earlier. To tutoring other students. To deciding a standard education was what he wanted. This kid might become a brilliant environment scientist. He may find his groove at college. Choosing a path to the Peace Corps would be years away. And again, he personal mission was to improve the world. I think it’s a bit much to shut down avenues of kids we’ve never ever met. Even his own mom had thought of the Peace Corps. Maybe she knows him better. Even though he has decided against it.

Edit: This was posted after your comment. But he’ll be a different person in ten years. Seems too early to shut him down if that was what he wanted. And it seems wrong to assume that he doesn’t have practical skills. The kid sounded downright savvy and thoughtful to me. Utilizing libraries rather than buying unnecessary books to help his family. Maybe he’s had more practical skills and savvy than all of us.

The writing tutors will push your son to write, to face this common fear over and over again. If his fear is overwhelming, he may need the help of a therapist. I sense there’s a very interesting and unique voice inside waiting to be born.

@Mom2aphysicsgeek, thought I explained it somewhere but basically it comes down to depth over speed. He’s always been an in-depth, laser-focused learner who feels he has to know everything about a topic before moving on.

Well, that and the practical issue: this was his first ever school experience and we figured a part-time pace would allow him time to adjust to the game of school. He’s registered for 11 units next semester, so he’s closing in on that 12-unit full-time pace! :slight_smile:

Plus, there’s some LD issues.

@blossom “If he’s getting A’s in calculus, I think you can take a math limitation/dislike off the table as an issue.”

Ha ha, I guess my writing skills need improvement! I meant that he refused to do math up until age 18. These days, he’s considering majoring in it. He’s also become quite popular in the math tutoring center. :slight_smile:

@gearmom re “The kid sounded downright savvy and thoughtful to me. Utilizing libraries rather than buying unnecessary books to help his family. Maybe he’s had more practical skills and savvy than all of us.”

Had to chuckle at this. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve yelled, “JUST BUY THE DAMN THING ALREADY!” from another room when he’s supposed to be buying something online.

Just before his 6th birthday, he famously announced he would no longer be accepting birthday gifts. Instead, he said “I will only be accepting small and medium donations to my environmental funds, causes and issues.” (It’s the only quote I ever wrote down.) He defined “small” as $1.29 and “medium” as $3.45 or something like that (i can’t remember the exact amounts). His birthday party guests literally brought the exact amounts in Ziploc baggies. :smiley:

And despite the fact that his parents are former foodies who love eating out, he also makes all his own food, mostly soups from scratch. Why waste money on restaurants, he says. I just hope he’ll find a mate who agrees with him!

@gearmom, I don’t want to argue or derail this thread anymore. Of course, there is amazing potential for growth and change in all of us. In ten years, this young man may have mastered his limitations and used his sincerity and great strength of focus to run circles around all of us. I think highly of his attributes. In ten years he may join the Peace Corps or be in a much more powerful position to change the world than that…(usually Peace Corps is not seen as a career but a short-term experience…except in rare cases Peace Corps itself does not encourage people to do it for many years…though some go on to international NGOs.) I thought this thread was more about giving his parent ideas for helping him channel his energies in the relatively short-term future as he is NOW and likely to be for awhile. Lifelong tendencies (such as wanting to understand everything and needing to have perfect skills before committing to action) can change but tend to be tenacious… and I didn’t think for HIM the nearly constant internal chaos and acute lack of control of outside factors one experiences as a Peace Corps volunteer trying to accomplish something while in the throes of culture shock and confusion was a great fit for him in the near future. I was not thinking about ten years from now. I only wanted to help. I think I’ll bow out now so that more pertinent ideas than my Peace Corps derail can continue…

@inthegarden I have complete respect for what you did and the Peace Corps. It was only brought up as a potential future aspiration for a kid who I thought might be able to contribute in a meaningful way.

@JeanJeanie He makes his own soups from scratch? I might have to adopt him.

Duplicate

Just a suggestion, but have you focused on what work environments might be OK with a rather quirky personality? Some career paths are more tolerant of that than others.

@roycroftmom DH and I have been talking about that for 20 years. We have some friends in the tech industry who claim DS could have a good job right now and he’d fit right in. But he wants to explore college options first. (FWIW, my brother is somewhat similar and he maintained his sanity by being self-employed as a networks administrator.)

@gearmom, I’m the laziest cook on the planet (Trader Joe’s or bust!), so I am humbled by the kid’s soups. He makes it up as he goes (often with unconventional combinations) and they’re usually quite good. His other domestic specialty: folding his laundry, origami style. :smiley: Now if only we can get him to clean his bathroom on a regular basis.

I would love to meet your son! He’s a rare one.

I agree with all the posters who recommended reverse engineering this. What work environment could he function in?

I suggest part of his continuing education at this point should trying this out on a low risk basis, part time jobs or internships in likely environments. Tech is a no brainer of course, and another path he might gravitate to might be academics. He’d probably make a great math professor, with his success in the tutoring Center probably the closest to work experience he has.

But he needs to train the flexibility muscle in his brain some more before he is ready to jump through real world job hoops, even in academia. I’m probably preaching to the choir here, and you’ve gone through a number of therapists, but you can’t give up on this.

It’s a pity that finances are constrained - he sounds like a perfect candidate for Oxford or Cambridge. No pesky gen Ed requirements, immerse yourself in math or sciences and follow your quirky interests on the side in the free time you have. And there will always be someone quirky enough to do join in with you.

I agree 100% with the suggestion that since finances matter that you should take a low risk financial route for letting him explore options. I read your posts in a completely opposite way than the other posters. Here is a 21 yr old man who has yet to complete a course he doesn’t want to and has managed to enroll in 3 classes a semester (guessing here, but if 11 hrs is a new high, then that looks like 9 hrs was probably the old max.) What I read is the background story for a very difficult transition to adulthood.

Has he ever held any type of job? How does he react to being told what to do and when to do it? What happens if he is interested in approaching a task one way and is told he can’t and that he needs to move on and do it this way instead? Can he mentally let go and shift gears immediately as directed?

Methodical, deep entrenchment in what he is doing, wanting to perfect the task at hand…those may sound like wonderful employment qualities when presented by a loving mother (I am intimately aquatinted with a young man with those exact same qualities), but there are very few real world employment situations where speed doesn’t matter, where output with necessary results as dictated by outside expectations aren’t the driving impetus. The bottom line with deadlines controlling tasks is real. Meeting expectations is real. And those are outside of the social interactions taking place at all levels.

Unemployment and underemployment of Aspies is a huge issue. Some statistics state around 88%. I have been part of support groups for parents with adult autistic children. Unfortunately, having multiple degrees and being unemployed is not that uncommon amg the adult children. We have lived in 3 states since our ds became an adult. We have worked with the Dept of Rehab in all three states. All of them have had counselors dedicated just to Aspies. Why? Bc maintaining long term employment is difficult. Why? Pace, output, rigidity toward completing what they have started and not wanting to shift gears, etc. Educational background is not the issue. Getting through school is not the same as getting and staying employed.

My biggest regret with our ds is that we spent so much money on school bc money is a limited resource in our family. I wish instead we had found a way to turn his obsessions into a small business that we could have managed while he did his thing. He would have thrived in immersing himself in the things he never stops thinking about. As his own business with us managing it, he would have had the freedom to do it his way and have felt productive and positive about himself.

I would arm yourself with understanding employment issues. Being aware of the future hurdles beyond his actually taking classes required for a degree is prudent. Be proactive in understanding what is required and what is at stake.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/04/21/401243060/young-adults-with-autism-more-likely-to-be-unemployed-isolated

The advantage he has is that awareness is growing that talented minds are going to waste and employers are missing potentially great employees that don’t fit the normal employee box.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/youre-autistic-you-know-you-can-do-a-good-job-but-will-employers-listen/2016/09/22/412956bc-4dca-11e6-a422-83ab49ed5e6a_story.html?utm_term=.052bb6ff04c2
https://moneyish.com/heart/most-college-grads-with-autism-cant-find-jobs-this-group-is-fixing-that/

Fwiw, we have not found the answers for our ds at all. We have failed to get him where he could potentially be. He is a statistic in the data set bc he is severely underemployed. I wish we had understood the bigger picture earlier on. One counselor, who had made me furious at the time, had told us back when he was 14 that all the education in the world wouldn’t matter if he couldn’t hold a job. My reaction then was here is this gifted and talented kid who has amazing potential. Don’t be ridiculous. He can achieve his goals. I was absolutely 100% wrong and all my support and positive thinking was not enough.

In hindsight I now realize that it requires a plan. A realistic plan that they are on board with and willing to pursue. We can’t want it for them. They have to be willing to follow through. Getting the degree is probably the easiest piece of the puzzle. Fitting that puzzle piece in the right place…that is very difficult and they have to be willing to put themselves out there and actively pursue the place they fit.

Our ds at this point refuses to change jobs. He doesn’t like his job and he is unemployed. He is capable of so much more. But, we cannot want it for him. He has to take ownership over the transition himself. He has even turned down a promotion bc it required change. These are huge hurdles that he faces daily. He is a wonderful young man with wonderful qualities, but his struggles are very, very real.

I hope you find the right path forward for your ds.

I haven’t finished the thread yet, but wanted to say that as a former unschooling mama I completely agree with post 28 by @Mom2aphysicsgeek. I think unschooling parents definitely tend towards enabling students to avoid the hard parts. That was my personal experience, anyway.

I just noticed that my post #74 has unemployed in the last full paragraph. I must have mistyped and autocorrect miscorrected. It should be underemployed. He has been employed full time for over 3 yrs.

Happy update: not only is he managing a full-time academic load this semester, he’s doing very well. In fact, his Calculus professor recently recommended him for a NASA internship and several of his classmates have asked if they can hire him as their private tutor (he declines, saying he will help them for free).

My takeaway as a parent? Patience is a virtue! :slight_smile:

Regarding the notion that unschooling is tantamount to enabling (and encourages an avoidance of hard stuff), well…he logged 254 hours in the school’s tutoring center last semester. He works harder than anyone I know, and his professors have taken note, too. So, looks like unschooling worked out pretty well in his case. :slight_smile: