Slower-paced, 2E, unschooled, paradoxical perfectionist...it's complicated!

Parents Forum
1

Overview:

He’s 21 and heading into his third year at our local CC. Prior that, he’d never had any formal schooling (teachers told us they didn’t know what to do with him and encouraged us to homeschool/unschool).

He’s very bright, intense but refused to “play the game” of school (no math, no writing). Instead, he spent his K-12 years reading voraciously, teaching himself six computer languages, watching endless documentaries, traveling extensively, countless museums, etc. He seems unable to “hang out” or slack.

Then he turned 18 and bam–school suddenly became his priority #1. Has compiled 33 units with a 4.0 gpa (Biology, Psychology, Mandarin 1&2, Japanese, Environmental Science, Trigonometry, Pre-Calc, Calc, Astronomy), but it’s at a part-time pace (7-9 units/semester). He studies seemingly nonstop. Zero social life but did join three academic clubs and honors society this semester. :slight_smile:

The bad news: he has three W’s on his transcripts for dropping classes he doesn’t think he can get an A in. He’s yet to make it through any class that involves more than a tidbit of writing. He’s worked with three writing tutors; all say he’s far beyond proficient but goes into freeze mode with anxiety/perfectionism especially if he’s asked to write about himself or write an opinion. And he doesn’t seem to be at all interested in lowering his standards, so a full-time academic pace seems a little unlikely at this point.

His 2E profile: PG, performance anxiety, mild/moderate OCD, slow processing (fifth percentile). He finally sought accommodations this year–and is using them. Hooray. He’s very introverted and almost always plays up his faults over successes.

Bigger hooray: he is finally eager to discuss the next level and is looking at taking the SAT. He is tutoring fellow students in the math center. He is looking through STEM courses on university websites and saying he is “really excited” at the prospect (this is huge). At least four of his professors offered to write personal recommendations for him.

He’s heavily undecided, though a STEM major seems likely. His main goal in life: saving the world.

So! Anyone know of any college in the galaxy that might be interested in a student like this? One who could study (oh so hard!) but at a part-time pace?

Other thoughts, comments, suggestions?

TIA!

2

Hi @JeanJeanie,

Welcome!

Couple of questions:

  1. Why would he need to take the SAT? He'll be a transfer student wherever he goes.
  2. What accommodations does he receive?
  3. What is his/your financial situation? What can he/you afford?

Answer: He can probably go to a lot of colleges part time as long as someone is paying for it. Here’s a list of colleges you/he might look at:

https://www.collegechoice.net/50-best-disability-friendly-colleges-and-universities/

and this:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/533999/the-kandw-guide-to-colleges-for-students-with-learning-differences-13th-edition-by-the-princeton-review-marybeth-kravets-and-imy-wax/9781101920381/

There are also colleges on the block schedule such as Colorado College and Cornell College (Iowa). I also understand the Colorado School of Mines is good for 2E kids, but I don’t know about their policy regarding part time attenders.

For the record, I’m a college consultant, and the parent of a very 2E PG kid that fits your son’s description (my son has way more issues, though, but his processing speed was similar at 13%ile). We’ve discussed the idea of part time college to a degree, but as of right now, his issues are so severe, he’s unable to attend college.

Hope you get some more advice! I’ve worked with a number of 2E kids, and for sure, each 2E kids’ path was unique.

3

Colorado school of MInes is a public school. It has MANY part time students.

I don’t think you are going to find a 4 year university that will let him do it his way. He’s going to have to write papers. He’s going to have to take classes he might not get an A in.

4

STEM with no math could be really challenging. Maybe a bio major wouldn’t need it. Also, the SAT is 50% math.

5

Have you considered any career paths/trades instead of trying to get over that BA/BS hurdle?

6

I find your son’s story fascinating and a great example of how everyone is different in their talents and learning styles. Our educational system and the Common Core standards has made the experience so narrow. It forces students to fit in the box and if they don’t, casts them aside. Your son, as all youth, are unique individuals who should be celebrated and supported.

I am certainly no expert but from what you describe I believe your son absolutely could (and should) obtain a college degree. He is perhaps far more brilliant than many with the perfect resumes. What comes to my mind are schools that are unique themselves. Off the top of my head Bennington College comes to mind as well as maybe Bard. I am certainly not a wealth of information of other types of schools like this around the country. I would imagine you would need to talk to admissions counselors directly and explain what you have here long before ever applying or even visiting. The only other thought I have is if somehow you could find an educator/professor/individual who has connections and took a personal interest in your son. The right person, who understands this situation and wanted to help, may be what you need.

I find it beautiful that your son wants to save the world. I truly hope he does. Don’t ever let anyone suggest your son is less than, in fact he is probably the most. Best wishes in your journey.

7

I was going to mention Bennington, as well as Bard, Hampshire, Marlboro, and Colleges that Change Lives. Also test optional schools http://fairtest.org/university/optional

Lesley College has an adult learner program he would qualify for, and students can take one or two classes (at least two for financial aid). Goddard has a low residency program that suits kids who are not thriving with the conventional model. Union Institute, also in Vermont, has a low residency and online program.

Our state Universities (MA) allow for students to take just one or two classes, even when matriculated. BU has Metropolitan College. I could go on and on. Just check out continuing education at whatever school he is interested in.

If he can get accommodations regarding writing, great, but some amount will probably be required anywhere.

There are plenty of options.

8

There is no point in taking the SAT as he will be a transfer student.
Your son marches to his own drummer. He needs to find a college that will allow him to study whatever he wants. Look at colleges with no or little curriculum requirements. There are a lot of them.

He has a good GPA, which will be important. Realize that a lot of colleges on this list might not accept all of his credits from comm college. The writing is going to be an issue at a lot of colleges. It will be very tough to find a college that won’t require some proof of competency in that area.

So he has the equivalent of three semesters of college, right? He can look at those colleges on a “No core curriculum” list to see if he can submit a transfer app, but it might be late now to transfer for spring. He should sit down with an academic advisor at his school to discuss his options. Your son may not want to write, but if he wants a degree, he probably won’t be able to get around that. It seems he is learning just for the sake of learning. There is nothing wrong with that, but is there an end goal? He doesn’t want to be part of the “establishment” rules, but at some point he is going to have to understand that he will have to compromise if he wants a degree.

He can look at the colleges on this list and find some of interest. I suggest he then email admissions and basically explain what you have said here. He should ask if there are any entrance requirements that he lacks. Some of the most liberal (in the original sense of the word) colleges are extremely difficult to be admitted to, such as Brown, which is probably the best known college with no requirements at all, EXCEPT writing. Most colleges have free tutoring centers on campus and there will be plenty of writing tutors. If he plans to stay at his CC for spring, I strongly suggest he take an intro writing course.

9

He can take a basic composition course for writing at the CC and then be exempt at many schools.

Brown is reputed to be “free” but one of mine went there and the advisors make very strong suggestions for diversity in classes taken. Amherst is another one. These are very rigorous schools so within each class there is a lot of reading and work. A Hampshire or Bennington type of school is more free but also rigorous, Goddard even more free, but would not be good for STEM.

I honestly think a state U. might work once the writing is taken care of at the CC. Does his CC have automatic transfer?

10

Really, you need to figure out the perfectionism piece and the refusal to write before he transfers. Work with an psychologist rather than a tutor since the problem isn’t his actual skills just the anxiety of turning in something imperfect.

Dropping classes at community college is one thing, but tuition at four year schools will make his perfectionism more expensive and possibly make it impossible to finish a degree.

11

Thanks all!

I should have mentioned he’s casually visited about six campuses thus far (including Colorado College). When asked by one bubbly college tour guide went around the room asking why each student wanted to attend that particular college, he replied with his usual honesty: “I don’t have a reason.” The room got quiet as the tour guide tried repeatedly to coax a better answer out of him. My son repeated his response. Not sure I’ll ever forget the look on the faces of the other parents!

Re the SAT, we’ve been told it (or ACT) would indeed be required by some (a few LACs at least) since he doesn’t have much of a high school record (at least not a typical one). He’s never had Geometry, so he’s teaching himself that now. Obviously hoping he overcomes his writing perfectionism…time will tell.

Re finances, I guess we are traditionally in the lower rungs of “upper middle,” but we haven’t had any income to speak of in nearly a year. So merit scholarships would be great, if that’s possible with his slower pace. Regular financial aid seems unlikely since it seems tied to full-time academic pace. One local LAC told me they have “tons” of aid, but I’ll believe it when I see it. Especially for a part-timer.

Writing is the biggest bugaboo, no question. He actually writes very well as far as mechanics go (I’m a professional and he edits my work), but when it’s for an assignment, the confidence takes a big dive and the perfectionist monster takes over. He’s dropped college writing twice now. If only Technical Writing could fulfil that basic requirement…!

12

Just a shout out that I feel for you. My younger D is an aspie who also has writing refusal. Perfectionism is a issue but mostly its that inflexible brain. Last year she refused to write anything that was informational. We got an accommodation from HS that she could write everything in a poetic format…for some reason that worked. I wonder if you can get a dysgraphia diagnosis. It’s a pretty wide umbrella in terms of what it is-but might help in some way.

St John’s comes to mind…and I’m not sure why. I must have read something about it. We are in the homestretch for D1 neuro-typical but I’m taking notes for D2.

13

I would work backwards if it were me and my kid.

What does he mean by “saving the world”? Working for a relief organization in supply chain management getting fresh water and generators to a hurricane zone? Doing genetic research on seeds which will supply food as the climate gets hotter? Working in micro-finance in Africa helping women buy cows and chickens to start small farming operations?Becoming a social worker who specializes in transitioning homeless people to safe housing and jobs?

Give him an assignment… read as broadly and voraciously as he wants to or cares to, but come back to you in 8 weeks with two or three professional goals (and maybe one or two backups). Then reverse engineer what he wants to do.

I think it’s pointless to think about an LAC or a place like Brown if he doesn’t like to write. It’s all writing. But you are putting the cart before the horse. Have him get a handle on a couple of actual, real life careers that he finds fascinating and is motivated to pursue. Then you can help him map out a path which is realistic based on his needs/gifts/limitations, financially feasible, and will make him self supporting within a decent time frame.

14

Re psychological guidance, he’s seen at least a variety of therapists, most of whom are seen to be experts in 2E/gifted, including one he saw for four years. Not much has changed on the perfectionism, though. He says he feels if he isn’t learning every single concept taught, he shouldn’t get credit for the class!

I’ve looked at Quest in B.C. and The Evergreen State in Washington, as both allow students to design their own curriculum, but we’ve read stories from students there about its heavy slacker culture and he wants no part of that. Hoping to find a college that allows for a scholarly approach at a slower pace. Maybe we should invent one? :slight_smile:

15

I think that @blossom might be on to something, for example when she asks: “What does he mean by ‘saving the world’?”.

@JeanJeanie it sounds to me like your son is very intelligent. It is not unheard of for exceptionally intelligent people to have significant trouble figuring out what they want to do with their life, and also have significant trouble with structured education unless and until they figure out why they want to do it. IMHO there is a very good chance that if your son figures out what he wants to do and why, then he is likely to be be able to do whatever it takes to get there.

So, how does one save the world? On the most part the world seems to be determined to make its own mistakes and doesn’t actually want me or your son or Al Gore or any other person to “save” it. However, there are specific things that people can do that will help. @blossom has listed some good ones. There are others.

I think that you should get your son to list things that he could do to take a one-person sized step towards making the world a better place. @blossom’s list could be a start, but I am sure that there are multiple other things that could go on the list. Then your son could take some time and pick one that he actually wants to do.

16

I agree that a traditional 4 year college would be difficult with the writing anxiety/issues. The schools above are certainly worth exploring. But keep in mind that many colleges have some kind of distribution requirements that would necessitate some writing related courses. And even in a college with no distribution requirements, a science major would have to write up multi-page lab reports that explain the experiment, results etc…

I’m not sure if the SAT is worth taking. For a transfer student with one year of college credit (about 30 credits) colleges often do look to the HS record. But I’m not sure how much weight taking the SAT after a year of college will carry since it is a test meant to be taken in HS. Students with two years of college credits (around 60 credits) generally don’t have to show their HS record/SAT. I think that is something you need to explore on a school by school basis.

One of my S’s friends who graduated with a liberal arts degree and couldn’t find a job ended up going to something he called “coding camp” which was an intensive program in coding. He has been happy and employed since finishing the program. I wonder if there are any similar type of program that your S could do on a part time basis.

17

There are hundreds of ways to “save the world” and as soon as your son starts to identify which ones resonate with him, the easier his path is going to be.

Becoming an MD/PhD who develops robotic limbs for people who have stepped on a land mine requires medical school which requires organic chemistry which requires math.

Becoming a lawyer who prosecutes cases at the Hague against tyrants and autocrats who commit genocide and mass murder against their own people requires law school which requires writing (lots of it).

Right now his perfectionism has had no costs to him. He drops a course-- oh well, more time in school. He doesn’t want to work with a writing tutor- oh well, his other school work comes easily to him. But once there’s a cost- something he wants which he can’t get without jumping through a hoop- the incentives will start to kick in.

A neighbor of mine works for a company which creates and sells products and curricula to help kids with severe LD’s learn to read. Their customers are school systems. She’s a former teacher. She HATES public speaking- she was fine in front of a classroom filled with 8 year olds, but a room filled with adults? Yuk.

She is now an accomplished speaker who travels around the country speaking at educational conferences and addressing the annual conventions of superintendents, advocates for special ed, etc. Often hundreds of people at a time. How did she get over her fear of public speaking? By realizing that she couldn’t advance professionally without it. She didn’t want to help three or four kids at a time- she wanted to take her knowledge and reach thousands of kids at a time. And that meant speaking publicly, conducting training sessions, addressing large groups of people who control special ed funding, etc.

18

Why does he want to go to college? If he has a strong desire to learn, and can articulate his reason to need to switch from his current community college, that is a good start.

@blossom has a great strategy to start with the end result and work backwards. Does the end result really need a degree? A kid who loves to learn could enjoy taking classes they choose and skipping ones that don’t matter to them.

Living out the reality of Neuro atypical children means thinking WAY outside the box. Consider the value of your child attending a school without earning a degree. Maybe it makes sense or adds some value and life experiences that propel him on towards his life purpose?

What if you had him figure out what kinds of things he needs to learn/experience in order to fulfill his life purpose. Maybe that includes some volunteer/internship experiences, or just informational interviews?

You sound like a great parent, loving and accepting the child you have, and supporting his desires and goals.

Best of luck in this journey.

19

Power- you are right. A college degree may not be the answer.

A young woman in my neighborhood is a certified EMT (not a college grad although she did a few semesters at CC). She grew up in a Spanish speaking home and has just returned from an extended stay in Houston with a relief organization, and getting ready to leave for Puerto Rico to do the same.

Talk about “saving the world”.

20

^I think that you also have to work backwards. He’s 21. Has he ever had a job? How did that go? At a job, you have to play the game. He needs to have some idea of the job he wants or can be successful in or why go to college.

I mean he already codes. He could be producing products right now. He doesn’t need a piece of paper for that.