<p>Shopthegiftbaske: Thanks for your post. Some jerk mom similarly complained about me because I posted that the area immediately around Lehigh was not safe. It was probably the same idiot. My D is considering Lehigh. If she goes there she would live on campus as a freshman. If she moved off campus after that it would be to our house where she would be safe and sound (we live 35 minutes away). I would never allow her to live off campus in south Behlehem. </p>
<p>In all fairness, parts of north Bethlehem are charming and a joy to walk around in, but that’s nowhere near Lehigh.</p>
<p>I have never been a fan of that area, and it is a good reminder that you need to consider more than just the campus when you look at a school. Many (most?) kids will move off-campus at some point, and it is good if there is safe, acceptable housing.<br>
I get blasted whenever I suggest that the area around Penn (Not Penn State) isn’t particularly safe. Yes, it is improving. Yes, “you need to use common sense” (which many 18-22 year olds don’t do), Yes, it is heavily patrolled. And, yes, my son’s off-campus room was robbed last December and yes, I still think it has a long way to go.</p>
<p>I’ll third that opinion on south Bethlehem. Can’t imagine what things will be like there if part of the steel mill gets converted into a casino.</p>
<p>Even in Northfield, MN there are slumlords (one in particular). D shared a house one summer - when the roof leaked, they called the landlord. He arrived with a roll of duct tape to patch the roof.</p>
<p>Slightly different perspective here as a LL myself. Odd that Op blames LL for no heat as vehemently as if it was deliberate, when Op goes on to say no one had contacted LL that there was no heat. As a LL, I’d hate for my very first notice of a problem coming from a zoning board rather than from the affected tenant.
Sounds as soon as LL was notified, he called on fuel company to fix problem. Unless LL filled tank himself, it was the fuel company that spilled fuel. Let’s not jump on the LL too quickly. LL has offered to clean this up himself. Thats a good thing not a bad one. After the cleanup, then let’s see what we have.
It’s easy and fun to jump on a LL. For years they had too many rights but not now. I once had a tenant call me an A-hole, explaining to another that I wanted my rent in full on time. Yes, you read that right. This tenant wanted to pay at her convenience and defined A-hole as the guy that held her to her contract. Different perspectives lead to different conclusions.</p>
<p>For properties with local storage, do you keep an eye on fuel levels? Or ask your tenants to? There should be some process in place so that this doesn’t happen. I imagine that it doesn’t happen twice if the zoning board is contacted.</p>
<p>The fuel company is an agent of the landlord so the fuel company screwing up is still the landlord’s problem WRT his property. He can work out the details of liability with the fuel company.</p>
<p>Our son stays in a place that’s professionally managed. The company has maintenance vehicles in the area frequently as they run a large operation. Young adults are unlikely to be aware of all of the warning signs of living problems compared to those that have rented before and sometimes management has to be a little more proactive about maintenance if the tenants don’t inform the landlord of landlord issues.</p>
<p>Well, Eagle, I don’t own rental properties with local storage. My own home is, though. My arrangement with the fuel company is for them to come by at their convenience to check on my level based on my typical consumption. I have other uses for propane here, so I am a year round user. I will add that I have run out here twice due to my suppliers’ error. However, my arrangement for my own home is not germain to the OP.</p>
<p>I haven’t had the benefit of reading the lease contract to know who is responsible for contacting the fuel supplier, and I don’t know who pays the cost of fuel. It could be either tenant or LL. Contracts can go both ways. Your conclusions(post 25) indicate you have read the contract and are aware the LL was at fault. Ok, I will assume you are correct, that the contract called for LL to fill and maintain proper level of fuel. Even so, is it so ridiculous to think the fuel company has slipped up, and overlooked this account? Unlike my propane use, some heating oil tanks get a fill once a yr(typically in the Fall) and that lasts a whole season. It could very well be the LL had no inkling the tank was empty, because according to the OP, the first mention to him of a problem was from the zoning board. I still contend that even if the fuel level was the LL’s responsibility, the tenants failed their obligation of reporting the problem to the LL. Their failure to report didn’t cause the tank to go empty, but it was the reason they suffered so long without heat.
The OP indicates the tenants had it rough in a bitterly cold November yet according to the OP took no action to help themselves until the very last part of Nov.- and that action was to have a third party call on the zoning board. OP says “Needless to say, I immediately contacted the Zoning Officer in the township.” If my S had come to me with that problem, I would have told him to contact the LL immediately, and if he didn’t get a prompt correction, THEN we might have sought other avenues.
If the tenants’ toilet had jammed up, and they chose not to report it to LL for a month, then went to zoning board- would we say “what a crappy LL; he wouldn’t fix toilet”?. This is no different. The tenants had an obligation to promptly report problem to LL and didn’t. One might explain it by saying they were young, or inexperienced, or too timid to mention a problem, but that doesn’t excuse it in my book. If they are adult enough to sign a contract and live on their own they are expected to report a problem.
Clearly- who reported what, when, is different from an oil spill. But according to the OP, it was the fuel supplier that did the spill, yet the LL says he’ll come out and clean it up. Based on info Op provided, I think it unfair to refer to this LL as slumlord taking advantage of students, and unfair to paint him in a negative light. I certainly see other LL’s or other circumstances may be different. But not this one this time.</p>
<p>This sort of thing is also very prevalent in Pittsburgh. It’s well known that there are certain landlords and companies that thrive off of busy and overworked students that often don’t care enough by the time they get home to complain to the landlord about the poor condition of their living space. Every few months the local news will run a big story about how students are living in apartments/houses that were deemed unfit to be lived in by city inspectors.</p>
<p>Generally your best bet is to find out who owns the property you’re thinking of renting and then googling online to see what sort of things people have had to say about them. I know there’s a few websites dedicated to this sort of service (since I had used them while looking for apartments in Pittsburgh), but sadly I can’t remember any off the top of my head.</p>
<p>Biggest piece of advice for parents/students. Start looking early. The most common reason people get stuck in this dumps is they wait until finals in the Spring or the very last minute to secure somewhere to live for the following year. Also by starting early you can usually find better deals on apartments, too.</p>
<p>I agree wholeheartedly that students are a blight to many of those homes and are to blame in many cases to contributing to the demise of those homes. The fact of the matter is that these are demi-adults, and most of them are just not ready to take on the responsibility of their own places, and many of these student ghettos have high maintenance homes. These same kids may do fine in a more modern apartment where all they have to do is pay the rent, but some of these older homes need a lot of care. </p>
<p>My MIL lives in a big old house in a town where many such dinosaurs are being chopped up into apartment units. I shudder at the type of vigilance that is needed to stay on top of these homes. Every time we go to her house there is a new list of maintenance issues, some of them urgent. I would not want to have a house that needed that kind of upkeep. The idea of a kid who can’t even keep his room picked up and put the toilet seat down having to take care of a home in that state of decay is laughable and sad. Yes, they will let the pipes freeze, the oil run dry, the sewer back up, the gutters overfill, the basement flood. I remember one year a bunch of kids who went home for the holidays came back to a musty, moldy smelling house. Didn’t occur to them that the basement was flooded. </p>
<p>Many of the apartments are illegal. It is not unusual for single family homes to illegally be converted for student use with extra baths and kitchens installed. I don’t even want to think about the fire codes and other violations some of these homes carry. Throw in a bunch of clueless, inexperienced kids, and it is a recipe for disaster. I know some of you have had kids who have had fine experiences in renting off campus. Yes, it does happen. Some units are in good shape, some kids are responsible, some times you get lucky. The problem is that if things go wrong, mom and dad usually end up dragged into the mire, and I know I want nothing to do with this business. I already lived my student ghetto days, thank you, and don’t need to deal with them again. Of course, my kids are hot for the experience. Thankfully, my son dealt with the burst sewer pipe in place without our involvement, but I just found out that he never really moved back into the room. Just kind of threw his stuff in there as he was in the middle of a show and had not time to deal with moving back into the place. So he’s living in a mess.</p>
<p>“I agree wholeheartedly that students are a blight to many of those homes and are to blame in many cases to contributing to the demise of those homes. The fact of the matter is that these are demi-adults, and most of them are just not ready to take on the responsibility of their own places,”</p>
<p>As a landlord of college students, I fully agree.</p>
<p>It’s a vicious circle. You have kids living in these “dumps” so what’s the incentive to keeping them nice when they weren’t nice in the first place??
My son lived off campus for the last 2 years (Lehigh) and I can tell you it was (and still is) a dump but it was his decision to move in there with 4 of his friends.
We would take the “for rent” sign out of the front window only to have it replaced by LL - his reasoning was when someone would call about this place, he would tell them it was occupied but he had other units available.
Son lived on 3rd floor (attic) and the roof leaked. LL was notified many times. He had many excuses as to why he could’nt get there to fix it. The refrigerator was about a 1960’s model and the ice so thick you couldn’t put anything into it. Son defrosted it but it took about a week. The basement was wet and the dryer was worthless. Screendoor on front never latched…These kids were responsible for mowing grass, shoveling snow and paying all utilities including filling the oil tank. Son kept a toolbox in his room so he could fix alot of the little things around the house. He cleans up after himself.</p>
<p>The only benefit of living in this dump?? Son walked across the street and was in Whitaker lab.
So glad he’s living elsewhere this year for grad school - only 3 blocks away but like going from the outhouse to the penthouse!!</p>
<p>In my administrative capacity I serve as the Town Health Officer here in a Vermont community. Under State Rental Housing codes, landlords have obligations that must be met, including having a heating system that can get the unit up to 65 degrees when it is -15 outside. Each town has a Health Officer who enforces the State code and should be called by anyone, including students, who have violations of the code. Let the professionals do your dirty work–that is why we are there, after all.</p>
<p>Probably most states have similar codes, either local or state codes. Have your student contact their city government for assistance.</p>
<p>Gosh, I agree LL should be in keeping with zoning codes. I also feel LL’s and tenants should abide by their contract. I sure could tell tales about renters obligations and renters that flagrantly avoided honoring their obligations. However, none of that is relevant in this thread.
This thread is about a LL called a slum lord taking advantage of (off of?)students who were too shy to mention a problem to a LL; and the prompt corrective action the LL tried once he knew of the problem. By all means, I feel if the LL was notified but chose not to address the problem, then he should be held accountable to all zoning laws, and could fairly be referred to as a slum lord. But that isn’t what the Op tells us. In the Op there is no indication the LL was even aware of a problem(until he heard from the zoning board). Additionally, we have no evidence the LL was in violation of any code. We only know the fuel tank was empty, and the tenants were too shy to tell the LL. In Ohio, just as in Vt., LL’s have obligations that must be met. But here in Ohio, so do tenants. Here, a tenant is expected to inform a LL of a problem. If not remedied in a timely manner, our laws prescribe courses of actions the tenant can take. I think that is very reasonable. Isn’t calling the zoning board to resolve a LL/tenant problem- before a tenant even makes a LL aware of a problem- putting the cart before the horse? [see broken toilet example post 26] Wouldn’t that be like suing a tenant for defaulting on the lease before there was any breach? I just can’t picture the Vermont Health officer, or any zoning officer advising a tenant “Don’t tell your landlord about any problems- let us be the first to tell him”. If such a thing is true, is there a similar taxpayer paid agency set up to handle a LL complaint?</p>
<p>Younghoss: Of course you are right. The first question we always ask a tenant is “have you spoken with your landlord?” If they say “no” we direct them to do so.</p>
<p>If the landlord is unresponsive, or hostile, the City follows up with an informal call. This almost always gets action because no landlord wants to go before the Board of Health ( which is most often the City Council) if a mandatory health order is issued.</p>
<p>Most landlords want to do the right thing-- it is generally the landlord who only owns one or two properties who doesn’t understand their responsibilities and expects their property to be a “cash cow” not a drain.</p>
<p>Thank you for the follow up. As a conscientious LL, I hate to see one get unfairly disparaged. I guess thats how lawyers and used car salemen feel too!</p>
<p>Sometimes – maybe not often, but sometimes – there are landlords in college towns who do an excellent job.</p>
<p>My daughter just graduated from Cornell after living for her last two years in an off-campus apartment run by the most competent property management people anyone in our family has ever known. Paperwork was handled smoothly. The rent was reasonable. The apartment was freshly painted and equipped with furniture in good condition when the students moved in. Repairs were made promptly. The heat worked. And no guarantors were required on the lease (although one was required on the separate arrangements with the electric company). </p>
<p>Thanks for the pointer Marian. Hopefully I’ll be able to find your post again when S gets to the point of moving off campus (incoming Freshman this year).</p>
<p>My daughter has it made in Scranton. She’s in a sublet for the summer, then moving into an apartment in August. The landlord gutted the place and is doing a full remodel, and letting the girls in every couple of weeks to see the progress; letting them pick the colors for the walls. He’s installing a washer and dryer because they’ll be so busy in grad school that he doesn’t want them having to worry about laundrymats. When he discovered they are all grad students in a medical profession, he reduced the rent by $75 per tenant over what he’d originally requested and said he’d take care of the mowing and shovelling. What a gem! Girls have already volunteered babysitting hours for his toddler out of gratitude (and 'cause the kid will be a comic relief from studying).</p>