I have a junior who is looking at Brown, Columbia and Stanford and his advisor (Harvard and Stanford) suggested he also look at Amherst and Pomona. He is a top, well-rounded, intellectual kid that will thrive in a diverse environment. Excels and has interest all over the map (applied math, languages, music, history, etc.) and with no clear major/minor yet. Loves learning and being challenged. My other kids went to large universities, so I no real experience in this area. How does one begin to look at fit?
Can he visit these smaller schools…at least one? Try to go when school is in session.
My kid’s final two choices when she was picking colleges for matriculation were a school with 25,000 undergrads, and a school with 4500 undergrads. She could picture herself at both…because both had all of the things she wanted.
Her brother went to a school with 25,000 undergrads. She chose the school with 4500.
First of all, visit schools of all sizes and see what he thinks about them. “Fit” means finding an environment in which he will thrive, which has nothing to do with rankings. A liberal arts college is a great fit for an undecided, renaissance-like student. Find “match” and “safety” schools that he could love. Have him talk to like-minded seniors at his school and see where they’ve applied. Then get his body on a wide range of campuses, even if they’re just close to you, to narrow down a kind of environment (big, medium, small, city, rural, diverse, warm, cold, etc) he likes. Then research similar colleges.
Great description for him: undecided, renaissance-like student. We are heading up the East Coast for visits in a few weeks during spring break. We had not considered going above Rhode Island but your recommendation is making me re-think that strategy. Instead of hitting just big schools I think we’ll add Amherst. UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke and Davidson are all really close and easy to visit too. Thanks!
This question comes up a lot and for some strange reason, no one ever suggests starting with the CC small college forums themselves. LAC alumni are famous for dissecting a subject “into butter” and the discussions are often lively.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cc-top-liberal-arts-colleges/
Also, certain colleges tend to have recurring themes, thus giving you a broad brush picture of the school’s strengths and weaknesses:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/amherst-college/1744660-social-atmosphere-at-amherst-p1.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/williams-college/159547-elite-and-preppy.html#latest
A nice thing about both Pomona and Amherst is that there are other schools nearby where students can also take classes, so while they are small there is a larger community too. My D at Pomona chose a major she had never considered while in high school (and loves the weather!)
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There are tons of threads on CC about LACs v universities. IMO it is one of those things where the student should see both and decide which environment is best for him/her. My S felt that LACs were too small and chose to apply primarily to mid-sized universities. In contrast, my D loved the intimacy, small classes, ease of getting involved etc. that LACs offer and is currently thriving at a one.
That’s true, but, they work quite differently. The Amherst consortium consists of four LACs and one flagship university within driving distance of each other. They are accessible by shuttle bus and the state university (UMass-Amherst) tends to be the venue of last resort for obscure courses that can’t be found on the other campuses, particularly in the sciences. OTOH, it’s almost a misnomer to call the Claremont colleges a “consortium” - they are so close together they are virtually one continuous campus of 6.000 students; there’s one library and all the dining halls and dormitories are open to all students.
I don’t disagree, that’s why it’s a good idea how to figure out how these consortia work and whether they actually get used. The Worcester colleges also have a consortium - I saw no evidence that too many WPI students were trundling off to Clark to take humanities courses. But I’m sure a handful do.
Stop one is to look at the college websites. See what they offer. See how they present themselves. Then check out the CC boards. Once you’ve whittled it down, I do think visits are helpful. Both my kids ended up opting for medium sized research universities. My younger son said he took very, very few large classes and did not have very many TAs either. That was my experience too. If you choose the right major and the right classes you can have an LAC experience anywhere.
A note on Amhert’s Five College Consortium. Some academic programs are consortium programs not confined to a particular college. For example, astronomy is organized as a consortium department. Although you could probably meet your major requirements solely at UMASS, it could be difficult at Amherst alone. Logic and Latin American Studies are Five College certificate programs. Logistically, it’s not that hard to work a UMASS course into an Amherst schedule–although some classes could be more that a mile away–it can get tricky to get to Mount Holyoke or Smith, even with the excellent bus system. UMASS, as a large research institution, brings to the table the kinds of facilities not often found at lacs.
Certainly sounds like Amherst is a potential good fit. I went to school in San Diego and loved it, but would not be a fit for my son. Fortunately he goes to our state-funded residential junior/senior STEM high school, where strong kids get into really low-acceptance rate schools. He has a good shot. Question: I don’t get you last sentence, why would a male be better suited?
This is my personal experience and view. I went to an excellent LAC. It was very good for me right out of high school because of small classes and how nurturing it was. By the time I was junior, I was ready for a bigger place and very much over the smallness of my LAC. At a smaller place, if you find your tribe and ECs you like then it is great, but if you don’t then it is much harder to move in and out of a group. Both of my kids went to a 100+ graduating class private school. They loved their experience and received great education, but they opted for 13k+ students Uni. At one LAC D1 visited, the tour guide very proudly said that they were like a one large family, if one should not go to classes a few times, one would get a call from the dean or someone from the school. D1 thought it was bizarre. She said it was too much like high school.
Agree that if possible, a visit is worth the trip. You really do get a different vibe at different schools even if they are in in the same category. There were many unexpected conclusions our kids made from these treks that were important to them when they were deciding where to apply. If you cannot visit a school, you can get an idea from the virtual tours provided on websites.
@NCMom14 - You may want to check out Washington & Lee and Richmond if you’re heading North from NC.
If you ask college professors they will choose smaller liberal arts colleges at more than twice the rate as other parents. The reason is that undergraduate teaching is a specialty at LACs. Large schools have very large classes and professors have very limited contact or time to work with students. If funding college is removed from the question the rate is much more than twice other parents.
The point about boys and admissions is a good one, we have calculated the acceptance rate for boys being about 25% better than girls at the NESCAC schools. Girls not being recruited for athletics have the lowest by far.
What type of atmosphere would make your son happiest? Rural, urban? Is he more artsy, preppy, jocky, outdoorsy?
A lot of the LACs have different vibes to them.
Urban, edgy, intellectual. He has diverse, multicultural and musical friends. Moves in lots of social groups. Not preppy, not into sports. Most likely participate in student government and clubs. Any ideas on good fits and bad fits?
Urban, edgy, not preppy sounds Macalester, one of the few urban LACs out there. Not preppy and not into sports suggests that, while he would certainly find his tribe at places like Amherst and Williams, there will be fewer of those kind of kids. The edgier kinds of kids tend to be interested in schools like Wesleyan, maybe Bates, Skidmore, Oberlin, Vassar.
I would suggest visiting nearby LACs to get a feel for whether he responds to that kind of environment, and then see if it worth expanding your list to visit some of the LACs on your east coast tour. Some kids love them, some kids find them suffocating, and it is hard to predict who will feel which way.
You can argue day and night about whether the education is stronger at big or small schools. Coming from an academic family (two profs), my family has come to conclude that, the attention and individual focus at LACs is fabulous for the student who responds to personal attention and nurturing. For the kid who doesn’t need or want that, the breadth, and depth, of academic opportunities at a university, including state flagships, can be unparalleled. We are living this choice as my older one is at a state flagship, could care less about small classes, just loves his amazing faculty and extensive course offerings, research etc. My younger one is looking only at LACs because he knows that he gets lost in big classes and isn’t comfortable reaching out to ask for help or support. So, the key is to find out what kind of environment is best suited to your student.
Good luck, and have fun, this is an exciting time.
For LACs, I would suggest Swarthmore, Haverford, Wesleyan, Vassar. All of these would be easier to visit on your planned East Coast trip than Amherst, and IMHO a better fit based on the description of your son. The benefit of LACs like Swarthmore and Haverford are they are super close to Philly with easy and cheap public transportation into the city offering a plethora of cultural and dining options and music venues. It is definitely a plus for a small LAC to have that access, something more rural LACs can’t offer. Also, both Swarthmore and Haverford are in a consortium with UPenn and Bryn Mawr, allowing students to take classes at all 4 colleges.
Brown does seem like a good fit for your son. Agree that Macalester would be worth considering and could be a match/safety depending on son’s stats.