Good point @intparent Would an in-person meeting with Smith coach be possible? Maybe team’s needs have changed.
I’d hope a coach would be understanding that some families have to apply more places for financial reasons, and that it might result in some kids (good players) hoping to walk on.
Realistically, the coach may now have promised that position to a recruit. Coaches who recruit, then cut, players are quickly exposed and shunned. So while the check in with the coach is a good idea, it may be a done deal on that front. Or it could simply be a personality mismatch.
In short, may not be about "understanding ".
@sugarski Nothing against Smith. As I said it is really great and has a lot of cachet. My wife her grandmother on both side are grads. I think it was the Harvard of Women’s colleges at that time. And today it really is an elite top school But specifically I said not the super elite division of midd and haverford.
Forbes rankings which blends lacs and unis has haverford at 25 and midd at 31. Smith is in the 70s. USNWR has smith at 12 for lacs higher tha. Haverford and lower than midd I only said midd was the super elite and the other two nearly.
But that isn’t reason to choose a school. It’s just my opinion based on mostly subjective data and listening to my wife talk about the changes over the past 25 years.
I can’t help you but I am interested in this discussion as my D is currently choosing between Middlebury and Smith. For liberal arts, not science.
I think I have seen you lots on the Midd boards so I am interested to see your D is also considering Smith. My D was also an early write to Smith, with scholarship. For us the money is the same. It is coming down to programs and fit.
My concern is that Midd is stronger but she got a warmer feel overall at Smith
@swtaffy904 (lol @ your username, btw!) - imo, go with what your daughter feels. Midd may be ‘stronger’ in a given dimension, but she won’t be disadvantaged by the comparative difference.
Only a single data point, but we had a similar thing with collegekid #2, who was drawn to the lower ranked of her final two contenders. She went with the lower ranked school b/c she felt more comfortable there. She ended up having a super college experience & got into a top-10 grad school - clearly it did her future prospects no harm.
As of a few years ago, Middlebury (51st below) and Smith (56th) profiled fairly similarly, at least when considered by standardized scoring attributes. If your daughter’s affinity for Smith appears stronger, then I think she could comfortably choose Smith based on general academic parity as well.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-610-smartest-colleges-in-america-2015-9
Smith has what your daughter wants and $$$$. If she really wants to p!ay ball, then she could, if possible, try out for the team. Trying out may even soften the coach. However, your daughter should be very careful of her time because college sports requires time and commitment without the support system that high schools provides. T travel
Smith has what your daughter wants and $$$$. If she really wants to p!ay ball, then she could, if possible, try out for the team. Trying out may even soften the coach. However, your daughter should be very careful about the time required by sports participation. Travel really means travel and college does not provide the social, institutional support that a high schoo! provides. Attend Smith with its money and after you see classes and academic and social demands she can decide what she wants to be in sports.
Any talk about Smith not being in a “super elite” division of LACs is, IMO, splitting the tiniest of hairs. Smith, Haverford, and Middlebury occupy the highest ranks of liberal arts colleges in the country.
Personally, I’d follow the money in this case, unless the prospect of not playing softball is worth the extra money.
I wouldn’t see the point of taking the offer at Middlebury when you have a similar problem to Smith’s (coach is lukewarm) plus no money. So then it would come down to Haverford vs. Smith to me - guaranteed spot on the team, but worse financials and academic fit vs. no spot on the team, but fully covered and great academic fit? And then it would just be whether playing softball in college is worth giving up her academic interest and paying a lot of extra money. I’d say it’s probably not, not to me, but I’m not an athlete either so that’s only a choice she can make.
A sufficiently motivated student at any of these four colleges could easily find a research mentor and project they wanted to work on, even pretty early on. Not that isn’t a nice bonus at Smith, but she could get this kind of experience at Haverford and Middlebury, too.
I’d hesitate to choose (or not choose) a college based on the subfield of major or very specific grad plans. College is a time of exploration and discovering new careers and subfields, and her interests may shift and change over time. Moreover, any good, solid college is going to have the foundational education necessary to pursue graduate study and careers in a variety of subfields. But, for example, the person who is currently featured on the Haverford biology site (Kristen Whalen, mentioned above) does marine sciences research. Roshan Jain also studies zebrafish, and Jonathan Wilson studies the relationship between plants and the environment.
I was about to post exactly this. You need a broad grounding in all of the sciences for oceanography, as well as stats and calculus (and ODE and PDE, if physical oceanography is her cup of tea). These days, computer science courses don’t hurt either. This foundation is much more important at the undergraduate level than taking specialized courses in marine science – there’s plenty of time for that in graduate school.
All three colleges are excellent places for a future PhD. Smith is very strong in the sciences and has a good track record of mentoring women. I recommend searching the forums for relevant past posts; poster @TheDad in particular has written a lot about Smith and STRIDE over the years.
Gosh, I haven’t been here in years, I don’t think, but the email Alert summoned me.
D entered Smith in 2004, with a STRIDE scholarship, graduated summa cum laude in 2008 with a double in Government and Math. She applied to one job her senior year–and got it–and worked as a research assistant/associate at a think tank in DC which she was originally pointed at by the local rep of the Smith DC Picker Program. She was accepted into the PhD program in Economics at UC Berkeley, earned the PhD last year.
She’s currently on a post-doc in the Boston area after deferring arrival to start a tenure-track teaching position nearby late this summer. She’s absolutely thrilled to be going to her 10th reunion next month. 
Fwiw, one of D’s acceptances was at a college in the Middlebury range, with some scholarship $$, but she chose to go to Smith because the “fit” felt so good to her. Turns out she was right.
As the parent of an athlete who would love to continue her sport in college, I say go with Haverford. I wouldn’t want my kid to make a college decision solely on sports, but Haverford has the academics to go along with it, the consortium is a bonus and the size all but guarantees that faculty will help her study what she wants to study. She would have a great academic experience at any, but being on the team is the cherry on top.
I really appreciate all the advise, and messages. It’s wonderful to have so much helpful insight! We are on our accepted student visit at Haverford today…then it’s decision time. Hopefully she will get the answers she needs to feel comfortable making this decision!
Thanks for coming back – please let us know the final decision. She has some great options, now it is just a matter of choosing.
@OldbatesieDoc you are right to beware the angry coach. I have two small college athletes and have been through this process. That can cause a lot of problems.
As for the schools, I side with the crowd of not basing a life-long decision with the vagaries of this or that ranking list. These are comparable schools academically. Middlebury is the flavor of the month with the finance crowd these days. But who cares? When paisley ties come back into fashion, they’ll be enthusiastically wearing them and touting some other school. That’s a fickle crowd.
I’d be proud to have my D attend any of the three, so if she fits well at all, and if playing the sport really matters then Haverford is your answer.
It’s a an unusual situation you find yourself in based in my experience.
After much soul-searching and 3 visits in the past week, it’s Haverford with ball for the win! It was very clear that Smith level mentoring would be readily available, and with the cheerful welcome of the team and coach as well as the friendly and inclusive campus atmosphere, Haverford was impossible to resist-even for a pile of money.
I know many posters were optimistic that the Smith coach would come around, but my DD did meet with her face to face, and it was clear it would not be a positive experience. Anyone who wants details, or is thinking of Smith or NESCAC softball in the future, pm me. We’ve been there, and survived with our senses of humor and self-esteem mostly intact!
Anyway, thanks for the support and helpful insight. You all did help us be very comfortable with our DD’s decision.
Thanks for coming back to let us know. I am glad your family (especially your daughter!) is happy with her decision. All the best for a wonderful four years.
Congratulations to your daughter and may she have a wonderful four years at Haverford!
Happy for you all. Sounds like a great fit!