I actually got an internship right out of my freshman year. I was hired mainly to organize/file papers for an R&D group. They were working on developing a “cutting-edge” product for the industry, and expected about 5-7 years to develop the idea. It was another situation, like the study room, where I realized there was a problem others couldn’t solve. I worked extra hours through the week to finish the filing to spend more time on the solution. After about 2 weeks I presented my idea. It took another month for the team to accept my solution as the “best”, gave me an excellence award for design, and I now have three soon-to-be patents. The funny thing is, after that summer I lost respect for Engineering degree because I hadn’t taken any core engineering classes up to that point and taught myself the necessary fluid dynamics for my design. I worked for them another summer because they offered me more money after I declined the first time. I was so bored since my job became testing and so on. To alleviate boredom I bought an old car and self-taught myself to do a ground-up restoration. I didn’t know anything about cars before, and I wanted to learn.
I got a 34 on the ACT and would score in ~ 98th percentile for Mathematics growing up
I’ve also been to counseling and saw two other therapists related to my depression and potential for ADD. In every meeting I was looking for help to overcome my issues. I never failed out of school, my counselor actually advised me to leave. Each professional would tell me “school isn’t for everyone” and relating me to a Steve Jobs- type came up from each of them. I hate to sound arrogant, I’m just trying to be clear.
Not sure what you want anyone to tell you. FWIW my brother had perfect math scores on every standardized test (without studying a bit) and he decided after his junior year of college (based on classroom and work experience with a major car company) year that he really didn’t want to be a lifelong engineer. Still he persevered and got his degree (including attending class, participating, taking quizzes etc.), worked as an engineer for a major company for a couple of years, went on to a a top MBA school and has had a hugely successful career. You have taken away a lot of career/life choices by not finishing your degree. I get you are very smart – but right now as bright as you are you are stuck in a self-described "dead end job, I suggest you put your ego aside, allow counselors to work to help you, finish up school, improve your GPA, etc.
Perhaps after you finish your degree you can learn to code which is an area that a lot of bright and self-directed people can self-teach (but most places won’t hire you without a bachelors degree). There aren’t too many Steve Jobs success stories out there so it is always a good idea to have a traditional background and a skill set to fall back on.
Good luck moving forward. In the end how you proceed with your life is your call.
So do you have plans to establish the next great company that will revolutionize the world?
“I was kind of like that in high school, but grew out of it in college.” I must have admitted somewhere that I was half hearted in college, until I discovered the right major.
“I was looking for help to overcome my issues.” Most likely, this is like the end of the Wizard of Oz, when Glinda tells Dorothy, “You’ve Always Had the Power My Dear, You Just Had To Learn It For Yourself.” If you wait for someone to make it clear, you’ll probably end up just analyzing their words and shrugging them off. More time will pass.
Finish the degree, whatever that takes, whatever college that means. One class at a time, if needed. Humble yourself to the process. We can’t all be heroes, all the time. You don’t have to love it, you do need to learn to stick to the conventions: go to class, do the work. Commit to it.
Taking a positive step, not beating yourself up, will give the ego a chance to breathe. Then it can think about what next.
And this: did you see a psychiatrist, who can fully evaluate, skip the Steve Jobs crap, and eval you for meds? I have a kiddo who needed this support. Find one who specializes in “under-performing students,” that college age group. Not just anyone.
I’m not sure what dead end job you are in, but you might try working with your hands AND your head. Try construction, try restaurant work, try something mechanical, try on some different fields. You’ll start at the very bottom, but all you got to do is earn enough to put a shared apartment roof over your head and food on your table an maybe gas in your car if you even have a car, but it might help you find direction. To me it sounds like you went into engineering because someone told you that you were smart and you’d earn a good starting salary, and then you floated over to physics because you had a few credits that would count and it wasn’t difficult for you but believe me doing something that doesn’t appeal to you five days a week is worse than whatever you didn’t like about college.
I have three boys, and only one picked engineering…and he picked that when he was a very little boy. He wants to build things, so every class makes sense to him and adds to his knowledge and that is what propels him. The other two completely stumbled into their chosen career paths because of something they liked to do - for one it was skiing and working for $9 bucks an hour and a lift ticket during college which led to the ski industry and his classes like risk management, finance and operations all started to make sense and for the other his love of growing vegetables led to agribusiness and his classes in water resource management and his work with the community food co-op during college got him all geeked up.A friend of one of my sons quit college and was doing mechanics, he just took a job on Richard Branson’s space program and is going back to college for engineering. Something he detested at age 19 but has a whole different perspective at age 27 because it makes sense. Another friend was coaching a high school football team after quitting college where he was going for a business admin degree. He’s coached for 3 years and now he’s back in college studying to become a high school teacher…something he never, ever considered coming out of high school or while he was sitting bored senseless in his business classes and he’s going to be a great teacher I predict. None of them had a clue they could marry their college degree to something they liked until mid-college or later. I’m not sure a career counselor could help you figure that out, you never know, usually you have to figure it out yourself. Eventually you might need to finish your degree but at least when you DO go finish it you can find a complimentary major where you might get excited about what you are learning.
Success is not measured by how fast you get your degree, how fast you earn X amount of money or how fast you hit the M-F 8-5 routine all that is highly over rated as you get older. It’s not even measured by what you do. I have a friend who if asked sociallly what he does he says “I sell car parts.” Well he actually is CEO of a very large company tha makes and sells car parts, but he does “in fact” sell car parts and started his career cold calling potential customers. He liked selling things and was very good at it. I’m sure he didn’t sit in college thinking he was going to be making cold calls in two years but he always liked tinkering with cars. Success is doing something you like and feeling good about yourself because you feel like you are contributing something of value. You can be the “smartest” guy in the world and be “dumb” at the same time.
I’m not going to chastise you because you CAN do college…that’s wasted energy IMO. Clearly it’s not where you want or need to be right now or you’d be walking across some stage with an engineering diploma soon headed for the nearest cubicle or job site. But I can tell you that it is far more rewarding and fulfilling to figure out what you want to do, even if you need to take a break to do it. I would have “let” any of my boys take a break to figure it out rather than slog through to a diploma just to have it in hand.
Sorry about the long post, but I’m firmly on record in believing that K-12 then 13, 14, 15, 16 all by the age of 21 or 22 is a magic success formula for life. This was a long post, but good luck to you figuring it out.
Yes, you dropped out of college. Your parents have every right to feel you “lacked discipline and showed blatant disrespect by not appreciating their financial support for school.” You’re stuck in a dead-end job.
That’s the bad news. The good news:
- You're obviously very smart.
- You're very close to a degree in a demanding subject.
- You seem to have a plan (studying programming languages)
My recommendation:
- Get counseling to address some of your depression/motivation issues.
- Realize you’re in a better spot than many, many young people who have lost their way.
- When you’re ready, consider going back to school to finish your degree. If your parents are no longer able to help you out financially, start saving and look at possibilities of loans. With your intelligence it will not take long to make up your senior year + whatever new requirements there may be.
- Reconnect, if necessary, with your parents. Try to explain why school was hard, and that you are (are you?) ready to move forward with your life. Your parents will likely appreciate the candor - and be relieved and proud of you (though they may not be able to express it. That’s OK, they were scared for you.)
5.Take some community college classes in CS, if the computer thing is something you want to purse.
Even a self-taught IT person with a physics degree will find work in the tech industry. It may not be a great first job, but it may lead to better ones.
You live in America: the land of second (and third and fourth) chances. Once you deal with your psyche, you will have what it takes to get back on a promising professional path. Repeat: I will have what it takes. I will have what it takes.
Good luck!
PS Much of LIFE is “a cloud of meaningless busy work.” The trick is to find, if not the meaning, then the purpose of the work - and ways to deal with it.
MotleyFool I find it interesting that the posts that you “liked” were among the harshest.
I feel that you need a special person who understand giftedness, a therapist or advisor of some sort. It is possible to find this person.
It really has nothing to do with test scores and conventional intelligence, from what I gather from your posts. You are most likely an out of the box creative thinker.
I take your concerns seriously and do not find you arrogant. I sincerely hope you find a resource that helps you.
Again, I wonder if schools like Hampshire, Goddard or Union Institute would be helpful to you, since you work on your own and set your own path. Olin is another great school , for engineering, that is different from most, though you may not be interested.
@JHS I appreciate your honesty, and everyone’s criticism is well received. You’re absolutely right, I had a very tough time respecting my professors. Most questions I would get marked wrong in a class would have the correct answer, but I would either not put any work down or solve it differently. I remember in an algebra-based Dynamics class I solved a problem with calculus, got marked wrong, and after I challenged it the professor said he didn’t know what the work meant. It’s that type of ignorance that makes me shut down, and give up any motivation. I believe it can be looked at both ways, but I still think it’s rediculous. On one hand I did not display my understanding of what the prof is trying to teach, but displayed a higher understanding at the same time. This may be a stretch, but in Good Will Hunting I relate to the character. The way he behaves with professors is very similar to how I feel.
Have you discussed autism spectrum conditions with your therapists? I am anything but knowledgeable in this area, but your descriptions of your own behavior give me that vibe a lot more than ADD or depression or being an outside-the-box thinker for whom school just isn’t his thing. School may not be your thing, but your thinking seems like sophisticated, inside-the-box thinking. On the other hand, your ability to conform to social norms in the classroom and on the job seems very tenuous, and you don’t talk like you can control that very well.
Anyway, all I hope is that you find a skilled professional with whom you can work on whatever your problem is. You clearly have an awful lot to offer, and it’s a shame that you are stuck hiding your light under a bushel more than you would choose.
@momofthreeboys I’m thankful for the kind words, advice, and support. @compmom I’m not easily offended so the “harshness” of a post is more regarded as blatantly honest opinions. I’ll go ahead and like every post because I really value people sharing their opinions with me. I guess I have a hard time understanding when people say “grow up”. I personally feel mature and grown up, and tend to have that confirmed from my peers and family, even now. I also struggle with admitting I have a mental problem. This “too good for school” mentality was never something I hoped I would feel, and I’m not a pessimistic person at heart. I was hoping for some big reveal that I just wasn’t at the right school, and the grass is greener on the other side. To me now, a degree is the test of one’s work ethic, but not in a sense of working hard for results in solving increasingly difficult material. It’s more a feeling of succumbing to the system and being rewarded for doing what’s told of you, not pushing you to reach your potential. I’ll take a look at online schools, from what I can tell it may alter the experience into a test of competence in a subject rather than how I feel about universities. I dismissed online schools before because you can’t get a Bs ME, but I may just have to give up that dream.
My best friend from high school had thevkind of raw math talent you seem to have. But couldn’t cope in the classroom or the workplace. He is a cab driver – has been for 30 years.
OP- here’s the sad truth- yes, there are universities where you would be stretched and challenged and feel exhilarated at the intellectual and analytical challenges. No matter how smart you are, there are institutions where you would NEVER run out of people smarter than you- faculty, other students, visiting professors, researchers.
No, you are not on track right now to run a race with those folks (right now). Sadly, the university system does not run on academic potential and someone taking a flyer on a smart kid with big ideas. They system runs on performance and metrics.
I have no idea what type of professional work would appeal to you, and no idea what kind of environment would work for you given some of your challenges.
But I have one recommendation- go get a BA. Right now. Present your transcript to whatever local institution is within a bus ride of where you live and see who will take you to finish up. Major in something- anything. If it involves having to sit next to the nerdy kids you hate (you are probably one of them so I’m not sure why the disdain, but whatever) then suck it up and sit next to them. Major in physics or sociology or communications or economics- have an academic advisor sit with you and your transcript and figure out what you need to do in order to finish college.
Finish your degree in the cheapest way possible. If you need to take an online course or two to finish up- do that- but just do it.
I have worked in corporate HR for over 30 years and believe me, I have heard every story in the book about why someone is under-performing or why someone couldn’t finish a master’s degree or why they are ABD (really- 8 years in a PhD program and you drop out three months before you defend your dissertation?) or why someone can’t or won’t apply for a job which pays more money and would be more fun, or why someone who is fluent in Spanish, French and German doesn’t want a promotion because it would involve a 6 week rotation in either Spain, France or Germany and they can’t figure out who would take care of their dog for 6 weeks…
Literally, I have heard it all. (The guy who wouldn’t accept a promotion which would have almost doubled his salary once bonus and stock options kicked in because he wouldn’t trust a mover with his Steinway… we hired the TOP moving company in the country which works for Sotheby’s, Christie’s, and all the major museums moving priceless Picasso’s and Calder mobiles-- and bought him an insurance rider from Chubb for the piano but in the end he backed out). These are the lies that people tell themselves- I can’t move ahead because I can’t move my piano. A LITERAL metaphor for being stuck- except it’s real and it actually was a piano.
And having heard it all, I can tell you that you will be taking a 200 lb weight off your shoulders and a cloud which fogs your brain once you have your Bachelor’s degree. I am not a therapist but I can pretty much guarantee you that for a long time the fact that you didn’t finish college has been the big matza ball sitting in your brain every time you try to figure out why you hate your job or why you can’t get a better job or why your relationships with (fill in the blanks) have deteriorated.
Get rid of the matza ball and finish college. And then you are done. You have a BA and can now move into gear for the next chapter of your life. But you’ve got some sad unfinished business, and it’s not just holding you back professionally and financially- it’s plain old holding you back.
You are too bright to fall into the “woe is me, I was too smart for college” trap. I know dozens of people like you. The guy at Kinko’s. The Vet tech who can’t apply to vet school because she’s a few credits short of a BS. The smartest person I know who shelves books at the local library- can’t become a librarian, or director of technology, or head of education (big education department- ESL, citizenship classes, tons of children’s programming, a well regarded GED program and tons of classes for vet), a job that he would excel in and LOVE. Why? Because he dropped out of college 10 years ago, and seems happier loathing the fact that he works for $15 an hour and reporting to someone much less qualified than he is, than he would be just finishing the damn degree.
I’m leveling with you here. There are brilliant people in college right now (smarter than you, if you can believe it) and tens of thousands of morons also in college. It no longer matters which group you are in. Go finish your degree and then you get to launch part 2. But you are deluding yourself if you think that the Steve Jobs track is where you are heading right now.
Mozart was composing by the time he was 5 and supposedly didn’t need any more lessons once he was 9 or 10 but that doesn’t mean that every single composer, performer, and conductor now playing in a major orchestra in the entire world doesn’t continue to take lessons (many of them every single day for decades). Why? Because at some point they got hit in the head with reality- they are good (or great) but they aren’t Mozart.
You may be a very smart guy but you ain’t Steve Jobs. So enroll in Western Montana State (or whatever the appropriate college is near you) and then come back here and the wisdom of the crowd can help you figure out a career you might love.
My son has struggled with right answer wrong technique through his early engineering path. He managed to keep his gpa up enough but much unhappiness. My brilliant sibling also had this issue and managed to get a few bad grades along the way to currently being one of three sought after experts in the world for a specific area and you are right, it is really about being able to follow “rules” for lack of a better word. From what I gather from my multigenerational family of engineers “that is the way it is.” I also know that practicing fundamentals is part of the degree as silly as it feels to me.
My family refers to it as “paying the dues.” If you decide to stay in engineering you may prefer a Tech school to a flagship type program or a program that has more specialization in an area that interests you. I haven’t really spoken about it but my 3rd transferred to a Tech uni after being very unhappy at Big flagship and is happy as a pig in mud now… he broke a three generation at Big flagship uni engineering legacy but every generation “got his unhappiness” and understand why he is happier now. He told me just tonight that the profs are genuinely interested in how he got to the right answer even if it wasn’t the path they expected where at Big U the TA would have said tough rocks it isn’t what I want from you. Take time to find the right place…it might surprise you.
Let me introduce to you one of my nephews. He is one of the most intelligent person I’ve ever met.
The problem is that he is too “restless,” as I put it to his mom. He jumped from job to job and dropped out of college a few times. And now at 34 years old, he is a driver for Lyft/Uber. There is nothing wrong with that, but he could have been designing the next generation of automobile.
@JHS You know, I haven’t looked at the autism side, I assumed since I can be very social it wouldn’t apply to me. Interesting to look into nonetheless. I have been diagnosed with a moderate level of ASPD in the past which I suppose came about from moving frequently as a kid (I’ve attended 11 different schools). I think you’re right to assume my thinking is inside the box, I’ve always had that idea of myself. It appears out of the box to others who may not be able to see what I see, but ultimately I struggle to generate the real “revolutionary” ideas. As much as I’d like to be the next Steve Jobs, I know my limits. It takes existing information for me to work with before I am able to expand that into something others may see as innovative. I long for the day when I find my Robbin Williams to help me lol.
Pentaprism- I know your nephew except she’s a woman and drives a van for an assisted living facility. Her co-workers have no idea she was “this close” to a BS in Engineering when she decided she needed something more creative and fulfilling than working in a cubicle.
Like I said- heard it all.
Your nephew is young- can he do an online degree program once course at a time and finish up?
Interesting comments about inside versus outside the box.
@MotleyFool – I’m not a big fan of the outside of the box theory, at least as it’s commonly understood. It’s not like you’re walking down the street and, whammo, you get a revolutionary idea. You know where OOTB thinking comes from? It comes from a long, painstaking look at everything inside the box for a solution without success. I’ve written at least 10X more code than I’ve ever shipped.
Go back to school, study everything inside the box, graduate and work a few years, and then you’ll find the OOTB solutions.