<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/07/arts/07maki.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/07/arts/07maki.html</a></p>
<p>“Despite what seems like an enormous boom in entertainment outlets, acting jobs have not grown much. Actors Equity, the stage actors’ union, which keeps track of the number of weeks worked by union members, has reported very modest gains since the 2001-2 season, from 277,000 workweeks to 294,000, a rise of less than 2 percent a year.”</p>
<p>Well with a B.A. in acting there are many other fields besides “acting” in which to pursue a passion for theatre. Teaching, agent, director, producer, stage manager, etc. I would imagine a B.A. in acting would be good training for many situations/jobs. Having said that, the most talented singer/actress at my kids HS (This is Hollywood/L.A. and she brought tears to the audiences eyes with her voice/performance) is now a regular on a daytime Soap. I really thought she had “star” potential. But hey, lot’s of stars started on Daytime.</p>
<p>
Well I know several in NYC whose main situations/jobs are as waitresses. After spending 4+ years prepping to be an actor/actress, you need to catch a break somehow in addition to having the talent and training. But with a glut on the market this is harder and harder to do.</p>
<p>Well if the main focus is getting an “acting” job or even getting your SAG card and actively working in theatre/TV/ and/or movies than I agree. Showbiz people are an incestuous lot. Unless you have a connection with someone who is “connected” it’s a hard road to hoe no matter how lovely/handsome or talented you are. Some people give themselves a timetable to make it and then move on to other pursuits once that time is past.</p>
<p>A couple thoughts…</p>
<p>Acting is a VERY difficult field to make it in. The odds are not good in getting a job in the field and even if you do, you are always “job hunting” or auditioning for the next “gig”. Also, it takes time so cannot be judged solely by the first year out of college. </p>
<p>That said, I agree with another poster who said that a degree in this area can be applicable to many facets of the industry, let alone jobs outside the industry. It’s a college major and many people’s jobs are not EXACTLY in their major…they may be related or not. </p>
<p>However, the thing about this discussion that is not being mentioned is that a BA in acting or theater is a liberal arts degree. It certainly is ONE avenue to enter the field. However it is not a professional degree. I’m not saying you HAVE to have a professional degree or any degree for that matter. BUT two strong avenues for being well trained are either a BFA degree in Acting (or musical theater if that is the branch) OR a BA in theater followed by an MFA degree in Acting. For musical theater, the BFA is the terminal degree. A BFA or MFA are professional degrees. They are far more intensive than a BA major in theater in a liberal arts degree. </p>
<p>Despite the odds, a person who typically does a BFA program is highly passionate and driven in this field and will pursue it with vigor as he/she cannot imagine doing anything else. It is not like they considered many fields. This is part of their inner soul and they can’t NOT do it. </p>
<p>Also, while there may be many acting waitresses out there, the alternative to getting work on stage (or in film/TV as the case is that you are describing) is not simply waitressing. I have a kid in a BFA in Musical Theater program and while she will wholeheartedly pursue a career on stage, she has other skills that I know will come in handy should that not come to fruition. In her particular case, just as one person’s example, she is someone who also creates, directs and musically directs and choreographs shows and could do that. An internship in a musical theater program for children turned into a paying job her first day there a month ago. She earned a tidy sum of money this past weekend and will next weekend and she is just 17 and a freshman. She also was asked to be the pianist in a musical at her college now and though that is not paid, she has been the accompaniest at auditions and now a show, and has been paid this fall to stand in for accompaniests at her internship turned job as well. If she can get paid work now in college, there is a chance she can get paid work after school ends to help as she makes the audition rounds. These side jobs need not be waitressing. </p>
<p>In any case, someone who majors in this field is still getting a college education and is employable as an educated person. Many people hold jobs in this world that are not what their college major was called. For someone wanting a career in this field, a professional degree would serve them well as it is intensive training and not like a BA degree. A BA degree is a wonderful path as well but it is not shocking that someone with a BA in the field may not be getting work. A BA often is a precursor to an MFA in this field for professional training. Otherwise, the BA student in theater is not all that different than other BA students here in other majors who come out with a liberal arts degree. There is all sorts of work to be had with that degree. </p>
<p>Even the BFAs and MFAs have trouble getting acting jobs but we can’t omit this more professional path and not just talk of BAs when talking of who is getting work in this field upon graduation. Granted, even BFAs have long shot odds. It is not a field for the faint of heart. Someone IS going to make it. A person very passionate about theater cannot be stopped in going for it. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Excellent post Susan. I especially liked the point that the passion for this chosen field cannot be dissuaded - it defines them. That is exactly what it takes to succeed in this profession IMO.</p>
<p>I want to apologize that my posted response was to the post and the subject heading (B.A’s) but was before I read the article that was linked! And the article was mostly dealing with BFA programs after all…and in fact, the one MY child is in, LOL ! Tisch School of the Arts (she is in the BFA for Musical Theater which is the CAP21 Studio). Her dean and Artistic Director of the Drama Dept. are quoted. But anyway, as you can see in the article, they have industry professionals working with the students right along, as well as in showcases senior year.</p>
<p>Soozie, everything you say is fine. But I think you are misreading the point of the NYT story, which is that this field is in a market glut. Yes, students need to be passionate, shameless in promoting themselves and making themselves available, persistent, and lucky. But a lot are going to be disappointed if there are too many chasing too few opportunities. As for the kids I know who are “waitressing” (this is partly just a figure of speech – they are in waitressing jobs and any other kind that will allow them to survive while still pursuing their passion to act), they also graduated from Tisch. It’s no sinecure or sure-fire way to success. It’s a great place to study and train for many reasons, but a glut is a glut. And therefore many highly talented kids need to be forewarned. They might even decide to pursue a different kind of degree.</p>
<p>Something to remember – in all of the arts - whether musical or vocal performance, acting, dance, visual arts, or writing - a college degree is not required for a successful career. A combination of talent and luck will make the difference – and if the sole objective is the career, a very talented individual might do better to be out of school, auditioning and working, than to be going for a degree. However, since steady employment is always a problem, the kid who goes for a degree is probably better off in the long run – not because the degree is the path to stardom, but because the degree provides an avenue for employability in related areas. That is, you can be a high school dropout and perform on Broadway or get a role in a movie… but a BFA or MFA sure is handy if the money is slow but there is a job opening to teach dramatic art at a private high school. </p>
<p>I don’t think undergraduate study of the arts – or the liberal arts - should be viewed primarily as a path to employment. Most history or English majors are going to find that their bachelor’s degree doesn’t really qualify them for a specific career, either. Rather, these degrees are a foundation for the future – some BFA’s are going to get employment in their chosen field, some are going to continue on for graduate study, and some are going to follow different paths. They may not get a better stage role than the kid who simply moved to New York and started auditioning whenever and wherever possible… but they probably will be able to do a lot better than “waitressing” during the times that they don’t get the part.</p>
<p>One area where training, experience and education in acting might be a big benefit and pay well…corporate training. A well educated person that is comfortable and entertaining in front of a room is always in demand in our industry.</p>
<p>There is another side to that coin. Thirty years ago, when I was deciding on a college major, I chose electrical engineering over vocal performance because I thought the long-term job prospects in engineering were pretty much guaranteed. Having been laid off from a couple of technical jobs over the past few years, I am currently earning money by (you guessed it) performing music.</p>
<p>My wife, on the other hand, did a performance degree on flute. She now designs databases for a large insurance company and outearns me by a wide margin these days. Her current job could be outsourced some day, too. With her skill set and her bachelor’s degree in music, she would probably be able to find another job pretty quickly. With my master’s degree in EE and over twenty years of experience in the telecommunications industry, I am one of thousands in NJ with similar credentials chasing a handful of job openings. To remain employed in my chosen field, we would have to move out of state.</p>
<p>Nothing is guaranteed. A degree that seems to be a sure thing today may be worthless in a couple of decades. It is likely that many of the kids in high school today will have jobs that have not yet been invented. The important thing is to learn how to learn. Expect to change careers a few times and acquire a broad set of skills that will allow you to do so. It takes passion, dedication, hard work, self-promotion and flexibility to be a performing artist. Those are good skills to have these days.</p>
<p>BassDad, if you want to come to a small (25,000) community 30 minutes from Dallas, I can put you to work tomorrow in a very stable EE/Systems Engineering job (defense). We’re paying bounties.</p>
<p>Bandit,</p>
<p>Thanks for the offer. We are not thinking about moving while my youngest is still in high school and my wife’s job remains stable.</p>
<p>Like BassDad, I was in school when Comp Sci was all the rage. I ended up in the IT field with a degree in communications with a concentration in PR and Advertising. Why? Because they found that many of the CS majors didin’t have the communication skills to relate to potential customers.</p>
<p>Bright, articulate, passionate graduates will be able to fine decent work, even if it ends up outside their chosen area of interest.</p>
<p>Yes, I understood the thrust of the article about the too few opportunities for jobs in acting or theater. Anyone going into this field would be amiss to not be aware of that reality. </p>
<p>Since this is being discussed on the Musical Theater Forum, I’ll just paste a post of mine from there, here: </p>
<p>Dean Schmidt (from NYU/Tisch) does talk about how graduates are prepared and do go on to do a variety of other jobs in the arts and theater world. Also the additional liberal arts education there creates educated thinkers who can be employable. I know when others bring up the notion of “your kid went into theater!” with the thinking of there is no work or long odds of a job/career in this field, it is of no concern to me at all. I know I am preaching to the choir here (edit…this is to the MT Forum) but for one thing, you can’t keep someone who has this passion that is deep seated from pursuing a life on stage. Secondly, I am not worried if my own child does not end up getting work as a performer because I know there are many other things she can do and even loves to do and even has a penchant for that are related and still in theater…be it writing shows, directing, musical directing, choregraphing, teaching theater to children or being an accompaniest for auditions or actual shows. Even in other college majors, students do not always go on to have a job in their exact college focus area. Look at many adults today and they are not necessarily working in what they majored in though may be in a related area. But they have their college education and an education will always take you places. I think at Tisch, and the deans did discuss this at Parent Weekend, they truly aim to educate students as knowledgeable thinkers as well as train you artistically in the conservatory. I still believe such a degree will serve someone well in the future. A life on stage is uncertain. Even if someone IS cast and gets work, they will always be job hunting when one show ends. </p>
<p>Also the article points out how at programs, such as Tisch, they have industry folks in all the time working with students on the audition process and other aspects of the “biz”. I know that the seniors at CAP21 (edit for Parent Forum…CAP21 is the Musical Theater program at Tisch that my D is in) have an entire semester of industry folks coming in to work with them preparing for their careers/auditions, etc, many casting agencies, directors, and so forth, culminating in a showcase for these folks. So college BFA progams do deal with “what’s next” with these students and do more than simply train them to be good actors/singers/dancers. Still, most who go into this are aware of the realities. But I don’t see college as simply a ticket to a job. It is about becoming an educated person, with a specialty and no matter what, you’ll always have that education and it is bound to provide you with opportunities in life that MAY not have been possible without that education. </p>
<p>Also, as Jamimom (who no longer posts here unfortunately) used to say…something like this…I can’t recall the exact quote…but she said that college is like a “halfway house” for young adults. It really IS that too! </p>
<p>I don’t think I’ll EVER weigh the worth of my kid’s education on which job she gets when she gets out.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>PS…for THIS Forum…I’ll add…</p>
<p>Like Calmom also brought up, a kid with a degree need not waitress or do a job of that level if she can’t get work on stage. Someone who went straight for NYC or LA to get work out of high school but is not cast, has fewer job options.</p>
<p>For kids who enter a BFA program in a field such as MT, it is not as if they were contemplating “which major in college should I pursue?” I could have told you my child’s major in college YEARS ago. Musical theater is a lifelong passion, a life long immersion, a ‘calling’ if you will. While she would kill me for quoting a line in an essay, here is one though it came after her “rationale” but anyway: “This is why theater is inextricable to the core of my being, and doubtlessly my raison d’etre.” To not go on and pursue it, would be hard to fathom. She knows the realities of this field. She may not make it on stage due to the tough odds (though we fully support her going for it) but I have NO doubt she will make it in other ways, most likely related in some way to the theater world.</p>
<p>Reality check since I work in human resources in NY-- the reason so many aspiring actors end up as waiters isn’t because they aren’t qualified to do anything else… I see hundreds of resumes a year of young people trained in theater who would be fantastic in HR, Communications, Sales, Training, etc. These people are looking for jobs with a high degree of flexibility so they can go to auditions, meet with their agent, take classes during the week in voice, dance or whatever, and then take time off if/when they get cast. The corporate world has few opportunities for professional or managerial work (although we employ some in clerical/admin. roles) for someone to tell their boss, “oh, I can’t come in on Wednesday, and I may end up going on the road for three months after that if all goes well”. That’s why they end up waitressing… not because they’re unqualified to do anything else, of course they are… but the lifestyle in non-performing roles usually rules out staying current in the entertainment world.</p>
<p>That’s the reality check I’d be telling aspiring BFA’s- not that they can’t do other work, but that to pursue the entertainment angle really precludes doing something else simultaneously. Even teaching… do you really want a HS theater teacher who doesn’t show up when he/she has an audition?</p>
<p>This discussion made me pull out something I saved that was handed out at the auditions last winter that my D attended for the BFA in musical theater program at Syracuse University. It is an article by Louis Catron, a professor of theater at the College of William and Mary. I can’t quote the entire article but will give the outline in just a moment. </p>
<p>First a couple quotes…</p>
<p>The author had been discussing the theater program with a group of business leaders and qualities that are needed on their production team. </p>
<p>Quote:</p>
<p>"One told me that her company has found that theatre-trained applicants become valuable employees because they’re energetic, enthusiastic, and able to work under pressure. They generally have polished communications and human relations skills, and they’re experienced at working as members of a team toward a common goal. Most importantly, she said, theater graduates have a can-do confidence based on their experience of successfully meeting difficult challenges. "</p>
<p>He eventually goes on to identify 23 skills, traits and qualities of personality that are usually well-developed in individuals who complete four years of undergraduate theater study. He discusses each of these fully, but I’ll just list each one here:</p>
<p>Oral Communication skills
Creative problem-solving abilities
Motivation
A willingness to work cooperatively.
The ability to work independently.
Time-budgeting skills.
Initiative.
Promptness and respect for deadlines.
Acceptance of rules.
The abilitiy to learn quickly.
Respect for colleagues.
Respect for authority.
Adaptability.
The ability to work under pressure.
A healthy self-image
Acceptance of disappointment
Self-discipline
A goal-oriented approach to work.
Concentration
Dedication
A willingness to accept responsibility
Leadership skills
Self-confidence</p>
<p>I’ll also provide the following quote:</p>
<p>"It seems almost incidental at this point to mention that theater majors also learn about theater. Most students who choose a theater major do so because their training will prepare them for a career in the theatre, and it will. Theatre students learn to use their voices and bodies and minds to make magic onstage. </p>
<p>Clearly, though, they learn much, much more. Few poeple choose to set out on a difficult, demanding four-year course of theatre study because it will make them good candidates for employment in other fields. But it will."</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>on what the outgoing head of Tisch said “you can’t have enough good actors”</p>
<p>Sorry, but we already do. </p>
<p>These aren’t bad actors who can’t find work, they are good actors who can’t find work and this has been happening for many years</p>
<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>
<p>I did not see your terrific post when I posted above. But your point is VERY true. For someone pursuing work on stage, they must hold other jobs at the same time they are making the rounds of the audition circuit. This other job needs flexibility so that they may do auditions, maybe even leave for a time and come back. </p>
<p>This actually came up recently with our daughter, who is 17 and a freshman in a BFA in MT program at Tisch. As part of being a Tisch Scholar, she had to do a service type internship in the arts in NYC. She chose a musical theater training program for both children and teens, a place where they teach classes and also put on productions with the older teens as well. While she has assisted with classes, the first day she went, they wanted to HIRE her. Their current staff almost all have at least an undergraduate degree, mostly BFAs in this field, some from the best programs in the country. Nobody working there is her age. She is doing a couple things now. One is she has subbed for the musical director as an accompaniest (she is a skilled pianist who sight reads and has accompanied for auditions etc.). But they also have a division of the company that produces Broadway themed birthday parties with interactive performances by the professional staff. My daughter is now trained and is working doing those and earning money while in a VERY demanding BFA program as well. She told me that a girl she worked with this past Saturday is a graduate of a BFA program that my D had also gotten into and just got back from an international tour as Maria in West Side Story. A young man she worked with on Saturday just opened in a new movie. (she knows him from her theater camp) The staff all have theater credits and work in the industry but seem to be working here part time as well. I think it is cool for her to have had this turn into a job freshman year and if she sticks with it, she might be able to keep working there when she graduates as she enters the audition circuit. As well, a few days ago, my D was asked to be the accompaniest for auditions for The Full Monty at Tisch (a student run musical) and now was asked to be the pianist for the show. While that is not paid, I know she could likely get such work in the future while she was also auditioning for work on stage. She even commented on the phone, “my piano playing is coming in handy!” She will likely be spending years auditioning for shows, hopefully getting into some but having to also do other work on the side or in between. She has already been paid to create/direct a children’s musical theater program this past summer, has given lessons in voice to kids, choregraphed and so on, and so hopefullly can continue to do such side jobs as she pursues work on stage as a musical theater actress. She could waitress on the side too. But I bet she could perform in a piano bar or something rather than wait the tables too. That doesn’t mean that is her aspiration but more along the lines of what Blossom mentions…the need to do some work as one is auditioning and/or between shows.
Susan</p>
<p>Hey, future actors got it easy, compared with composers!</p>