I posted an earlier thread about whether a visit to Princeton was worth it for my DD who is a high performing but not off-the-charts and not hooked junior from Virginia. We made the trip last week and I’m glad we did, but I’m wondering if I’m missing something - we were not overwhelmed by the experience and I thought we would be. Impressions:
campus is absolutely beautiful. Architecture, ambience couldn’t be lovelier
Admissions office was kind of underwhelming - compared to other places we’ve been, it was rather minimal, which wasn’t necessarily a turnoff, but was surprising
The admissions talk was underwhelming. Not a lot of information beyond what one could find online. We were surprised to hear that there was NO statistical advantage to applying early single action
No student panel present in the admissions talk which was unusual and WAS a turnoff
Our guide was great, very charismatic and positive, but we didn’t get to see the inside of any buildings which was disappointing
Service seems to be a major focus
In the end, the school seemed beautiful but shrouded in mystery. Very little info about specific majors/departments, mainly just the idea that since it’s Princeton you’d be offered immense opportunity both financially and networking-wise if you happened to be accepted
DD was turned off by the 70% eating club statistic
So in the end, as much as we’d romanticized the place, I am not sure that she’ll even apply. Is there something I’m missing? The guide repeatedly told us that the school is uber special and had an energy unlike any other, but without specifics we just kind of left feeling meh about it. Is there something I’m missing?
I think that’s par for the course with a lot of schools that don’t exactly have to “sell” themselves to the general pubic. Even the whole idea of guided tours is a fairly recent phenomenon (there was no such thing when I was applying to colleges back in the Stone Age) and my belief is that it’s basically a way of just managing what would otherwise be regarded as a bunch of wandering, peeping toms. Be glad it’s not like Beverly Hills where driving through with a strange car can actually earn you a ticket.
Probably true. I agree, guided tours weren’t a thing in my day either. But being a Virginian with no connection to the NE or any Ivy, it was hard to get a feel for the place. Perhaps a sign that she is not destined to apply.
This is not new at HYP. They are not concerned with ensuring their yield and don’t feel the need to enroll most of the class in REA. Once you account for all the hooked kids, which includes 250+ athletes plus QB kids, there is no advantage.
It was the most blah tour I have been on, right along with Yale and Brown. They don’t need to “sell” the school the same way others schools do.
Maybe that is because it is a true liberal arts school and the whole idea is that most kids figure out while attending and should be open to possibilities?
This is the most misunderstood aspect of princeton IMO. Eating clubs are not fraternities. Only 1/2 are selective with the rest being sign up. There is easy access to most events. While some think it’s a snooty privilege thing, it actually is quite leveling. At most schools socializing involves a lot of going to bars and restaurants (not to mention Ubers!) At Princeton the kids go to Eating Clubs whether they are members or not and it’s “free” so if you are a millionaire or a full ride kid you can enjoy it just the same. The meal plan allows meal swaps with other clubs and the school dining halls. Students make regular use of this. Also, no one can join until sophomore spring, so it’s not like kids arrive and get sucked into a club.
It is really hard to comprehend the whole Princeton student/alumni bond thing.
But on a practical sense, undergraduate focus is unparalleled. We have heard this from various people who have taught at other institutions as well as princeton.
It’s a very insular campus. The university REALLY invests in fun activities and events for the students. There are always things going on both academic or social - lots to do if you don’t feel like a party. I have not found a school that matches this at this level.
Grants for research and unpaid internships are VERY generous and easy to get.
@TonyGrace thank you. This is really helpful. She is really interested in W&M (in state) but could “possibly” shoot higher. She is looking at a reach to maybe do ED. That was why we looked at Princeton.
Admissions job is to sell and I’m sure nobody tries not to.
Sure, they don’t need to with a 76% yield.
But it’s more likely the approach admissions uses - is just that - underwhelming. Many schools miss the mark.
The trick is to separate your love from the school from the admissions office. To apply because you like a tour guide or not because you don’t - it happens but that’s not impactful to your four years on campus.
Did you stop kids and talk to them ?? That’s a better way.
I agree. I think Princeton is a fit school and it’s not for everyone. I think is pretty intellectually intense in the same way a Swarthmore or UChicago might be, and better for kids who like learning for the sake of learning and less so because of a career goal.
A student who loves W&M might like Brown better IMO, maybe Wesleyan, probably Grinnell. Amherst might be worth checking out as well.
My daughter spent 2 days on campus, attended classes with current students and spent an evening at an eating club. She also attended a question/answer panel with professors and students. She was very impressed all around. I’m not sure I’d cross it off just because of the lackluster admissions presentation.
Agree that Princeton is not the only fish in the sea. There are enough northeastern colleges with quirky, clubby, inter-generational traditions for everyone. We could probably populate an entire thread on just Homecomings alone:
@Bantamlove I would not give this a second thought. Your daughter has some colleges she likes, and that is what matters. Princeton is a great college, but it’s not for everyone. So…just move on. I’m sure your daughter will land in a college where she feels great…and that is what matters.
If it’s any consolation, my kid visited Stanford and hated it. Ditto Claremont McKenna. Both beautiful campuses but not her thing…at all.
Now that she visited I think it is time to move on. Just because it is a top school does not mean it’s a good fit. My daughter crossed a few of these off her list for that exact reason.
W&M is a great school, and if that’s where she lands I would call it a win!
I think part of it is that schools have different visit setups. We visited a lot of schools with d20 including Princeton. Definitely not all included student panels and we went inside very few buildings - often just the library. As many people tour Princeton, etc. that would be very disruptive to the students to go in academic building and dorms. I suggest researching specific departments, majors, activities, etc. in advance and asking questions. And try not to let a good or bad tour guide sway you too much (this is very hard!). And it is okay to not like a school - we couldn’t wait to duck out of the Columbia tour with the worst tour guide. I hope you get to visit places that wow your daughter.
I’d estimate that only about 1/3 of the thirty plus colleges I’ve visited offered a student panel.
If your daughter didn’t feel it, then yes. She is missing the right vibe for her. Princeton isn’t a magical place and there is no reason why it should feel right for everyone. My eldest visited a very elite LAC, renowned for its beauty, and claimed it felt like a creepy
cemetery. Different strokes.
I think often when people are really looking forward to something and have heard a lot about that something, their expectations are set so high that the reality will often fall short. This is true of restaurants, cities to travel to. colleges etc. I wonder what would have happened had your daughter gone in without any expectations. Maybe she would have been impressed, maybe not. Perhaps the school isn’t her cup of tea. However, tours are also just a glimpse, and one through a marketing lens, of a school. If your daughter liked the school not because she is expecting it to be uber special but rather because it has her major and there are opportunities at the school that she is interested in etc perhaps jettisoning it does her a disservice based on only a tour. Putting it in line with other colleges she is interested in for all the pros and cons of each, how does it compare? Was it about on par? While Princeton is renowned, it is also just another college so if she compares its strengths to those of the rest of the schools on her list, seeing the school through the lens of it being just another college, maybe Princeton with its opportunities and location compares favorably. If so, then why not apply?
I don’t remember the Princeton tour being anything special either but tour quality wasn’t a factor for any of our kids decisions. There’s nothing wrong with eliminating schools for any reason, including I guess judging how well they sell themselves. I got the impression with several of the Ivy+ schools we toured over the years that they weren’t motivated to sell themselves. Plenty of them didn’t have student panels or tour the inside of buildings, etc. Try the Columbia tour if you really want basic – literally didn’t set foot inside a single building, not even Admissions; they just had everyone meet at Low Steps and go from there.
Again, whatever helps trim the list is legit, even judging by a tour. If she’s not super excited for Princeton, I wouldn’t waste a SCEA on it. But I’m unclear how that connects to what you were “romanticizing.” Was the fantasy based on the perceived tour or the college experience? It’s an amazing school, campus and community regardless of the tour.
This is an interesting post and something that we experienced at another high profile Ivy tour (general attitude of “we don’t have to sell/market - you either know us or you don’t”). Although we understand this notion, in an age where colleges are very much “businesses”, this is still a bit of a turn-off. Yes, we get that tens of thousands of amazing kids are vying to grab the attention of these AO’s every year, but they have been put up on too high of a pedestal as a result. It’s fine - we get the message and will move on to wherever we get the right vibe, just like any other “shopping” experience
Thanks for the replies, all! The romanticization was based, I guess, on word of mouth from friends, acquaintances. For example it was my neighbor’s son’s first choice and she raved about it; he didn’t get in and was so disappointed. Everyone told me it was beautiful and that was very true. But part of the problem is my daughter isn’t yet sure of her major. She thinks some kind of non-medical school biology (leading to research in either genetics or bioengineering) but she is not at all decided. She is also very strong in the humanities and enjoys history and writing. So she doesn’t yet know if she’s looking for a school with very specific science majors or not. She is very smart and intellectually curious but also a quirky and socially less mature than she is academically. She wanted to look at some big reaches to see if they felt different than her in-state and private match options and worth a massive effort to try to get in/use an ED for. So far I think the answer is no, I just wish we had a better feel for what Princeton is really like. FWIW, she hated Swarthmore, was sort of ambivalent about Cornell, rather liked JHU but was worried about Baltimore, and really liked W&M.
That was kind of our feeling! But then I also have been warned by so many not to let a tour (particularly one good/bad guide) turn you onto or off of a school so it made me rethink myself.
