So who do I get compared against?

egreen · January 6, 2010, 1:03pm

I am in a bit of an odd situation. I’ve already applied to various T20 colleges and two safeties, but I am a bit curious as to who I am competing against.

From my understanding, top colleges compare students from high schools of comparable difficulty/rigor. For example, prep school students compete against other prep school students etc. But who am I compared against?

I come from a blue collar town where the graduation rate is around 50%, so my parents chose not to enroll me in the public hs. I am, sort of, a home schooled student. As far as classes go, I have a wide variety of academics going through calculus based physics and differential equations at local community colleges.

In terms of rigor I will have completed the highest level math/science courses offered at community colleges. Upon graduation I will have enough college credits to be considered a junior at a state university.

For local comparison there is an umbrella school that I am enrolled through where I am ranked number one, but only roughly 50% of the students in this school attend college at all, so I’m not sure being number one at that school makes any difference. I am also enrolled through an accredited distance learning program that does not rank, but I have been informed that I am in the top 10%, but again, does this really carry any weight?

So am I competing against other home schooled students? As far as I know, my situation is fairly unique. For example, I have been involved in scientific research successfully (ISEF participant), but my research did not involve a mentor of any kind.

I have various awards, but I have not been involved in anything like a chess team or debate team, and I haven’t had the opportunity to be a part of something like USAMO, so there is not an easy comparison between me and other students in my area or the country. That leaves test scores where I did well, but certainly not as well as some other students applying to T20 universities. So are test scores the only reasonable way to compare me to other students, and if so, whose test scores am I competing against?

I know that to be successful in the college admission process I need to stand out among my piers, I just haven’t figured out who they are. So who do I get compared against?

Beautifulnights · January 6, 2010, 9:48pm

Hm I’m not sure. Maybe your region in general? (if you really do go to a no-name town). But I’d be wary to take the “compare against your peers” literally…I mean, sure they look at schools in the same region, but at the same time you shouldn’t think that you need to try to “beat” the #1 at the other school or anything like that. Because you don’t know what their majors are, or their essay is, what their scores are, or anything like that. The colleges aren’t obligated to take either of you, even if one of you is better than the other (assuming this isn’t a safety).

My point is- you’re not just being compared to one other school. You’re being compared regionally, as well as nationally with SAT/ACT scores and things like that.

But this is all just my speculation. Take it with a grain of salt.

egreen · January 7, 2010, 10:38am

Well for all of the schools I am applying to (except for safeties) I am in the middle of the 25th-75th percentiles, so as far as test scores it seems like I’m at the average acceptance range at the T20 schools. I get what your saying about regionally, but from my understanding, a school usually doesn’t take someone way down the high school ranks if they have the option of someone higher (unless we are talking about Stanford - everything seems to go out the window with them).

I guess my real question is, if colleges want to see the situation you come from and how you achieved given your circumstances, who am I getting compared to? I seriously doubt anyone from my region, except for maybe a very select few others, are applying to any T20 universities. If it is by state, how do you compare a home schooled student against a magnet school student? In terms of opportunities to be involved, going to a magnet school is a serious advantage. And if it is nationally, then it would seem that only top students from wealthy areas who have the greatest opportunities would be attending the T20, since that is not strictly the case, I’m going to assume I won’t be compared against the number one rank NY student. I’m just wondering, it isn’t going to change anything either way. I am just curious.

Consolation · January 7, 2010, 2:08pm

egreen, it is often advised that homeschooled students take a larger-than-normal number of SATIIs for just this reason: the difficulty of assessing their program.

As to who you are competing against, it probably depends on the configuration of the admissions process at the school. For example, some schools direct all applications from a given region to a specific admissions officer or officer+committee, and they decide who to pass on to the central committee. Some schools have everyone read all apps. Some probably assign an initial reader or two by some other method.

glassesarechic · January 7, 2010, 3:47pm

There are usually regional admissions officers who will read your application first. Some of these applications are given auto-admits or auto-rejects (Duke says 5% of applicants are admitted first round, and 30% rejected). So you are, in a sense, being compared to those in your region. However, every student is evaluated in the context of their environment. This doesn’t necessarily mean that you are competing against other homeschooled students in your region but that adcoms will take into consideration how well you performed in light of the opportunities presented to you.

modestanarchist · January 7, 2010, 3:49pm

From what you’ve said, an admissions officer can look at you as taking the most rigorous course offered. If you went up to the highest math + science courses like differential equations then you have a very rigorous course schedule.

You’ll compete regionally and with the whole applicant pool.

egreen · January 7, 2010, 5:48pm

Okay, so for example regions such as ‘south-east’ or ‘north-west’? That would be rather broad, but I am somewhat familiar with how admissions is divided up by regions. I have just always heard that colleges care more about how you compare against individuals in your high school or local area than how you compare to others in different high schools.

For example, they would realized that kid X goes to a public school while kid Y went to a prep school, so they look at the applications a bit differently. If X’s school only sends 20% of the graduates to college and X has used all of his opportunities while Y goes to a prep school where 30% go to ivies and he sits in the middle (we will, for the sake of example, say the two are roughly equal in stats), colleges will be more inclined to accept X due to overcoming obstacles/adversity or something along those lines.

This is just what I have heard about admissions, and if it is true (which if it is not, please let me know and explain how it does work) I simply do not understand who my closest competition would be, because home schooled students have such a variety - such as students who strictly take classes at their home and receive grades solely from their parents versus students who take classes with other ‘home schooled’ students etc. - of different circumstances.

As for the post above concerning SAT IIs. I have taken 3 and did fine on them (one low 700s, one mid 700s, and one high 700s), so I doubt that would make too much of a difference on my application. It is my understanding that, for home schooled students, colleges look at SAT IIs as a way to see how much material the student has learned since they do not have standard grades or courses; however, that isn’t really an issue for me because more than 90% of my grades have come from sources other than my parents - with a large percentage coming from college professors.

I honestly wasn’t sure whether to mark myself as a home schooled student or not, but I didn’t want it to look like I was attempting to ‘trick’ the college into thinking I was a private school student (although under state law I am). I have sent all of the colleges I applied to transcripts from my ‘school’, the colleges where I have attended, and a master transcript where college classes are weighted equal to AP classes.

So making the assumption that test scores are all good enough that they do not need to be considered - meaning that I am academically capable of being accepted - does my competition then become everyone else in the pile? If so, I would wager that there would be quite a few of academically qualified applicants and there are not many slots, as demonstrated by the < 20% acceptance rates, so how do they sort the top 10% prep school student versus the top 10% public school student? If the approach is to holistically evaluate each candidate, it only makes since to evaluate their circumstances, but in order to do that, their needs to be a control group, an average, or something, right?

Any more thoughts on this would greatly be appreciated.

Note: I know I bring up prep schools a lot, but this is simply because I realize that the majority of the acceptances given by T20 schools are to prep school students because of the academic rigor of the prep schools’ programs.

Consolation · January 15, 2010, 3:11pm

I don’t think this is true. The majority of T20 schools have more attendees from public school than private.

You might want to consider taking a couple more SATIIs, especially in subjects where you were homeschooled. Schools specifically state that they look at them for homeschoolers.

The only other piece of info I can give you is that I recently read an interview with the Yale admissions person, and he said that they typically did not favor homeschoolers. I was actually somewhat startled to read this, but given that Yale tends to like the BMOC type of student, I guess it isn’t as surprising as I thought.

So who do I get compared against?

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