Science is very much not with you on that. Do you get sick from sun-dried tomatoes? Seaweed in sushi rolls? Cottage cheese? Low-fat and fat-free milk?
And how about this?
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2005/jul/10/foodanddrink.features3
But this is a derail, and not at all helpful in what was starting to become a good discussion.
Marvin, should we also not tax cheap booze (which is disproportionally consumed by underage drinkers and people of low incomes?) Just being sarcastic here.
I am perfectly OK with extra tax on anything that comes in a plastic container that can end up in a landfill… as long as the tax $$ are not misused. But that is the topic of another (political) discussion.
@BunsenBurner - cheap booze isn’t taxed at a higher rate than top-shelf booze. That’s not regressive by definition 
Did you read the Jacobin piece? It’s really good!
In my state, food is not taxed. Sodas have been taxed at the same rate as booze for as long as I remember. Neither is classified as food. I am all for that. In every state.
@marvin100, do I get sick from those food? Uh, yes, actually…but I’m not saying that’s why I think added MSG is likely bad for other people (as I said, my reaction is idiosyncratic); my own reations just forced me to learn more about the additives in general, and of their prevalence. And, whose science…there ARE legitimate people…not just new-agers… working on all sides of the research. And there IS some reason to think that the food industry has power to fund/repress the research that is profitable/not…
Oh, OK, I’ll leave the discussion to all you folks who can keep strictly to the relevant aspects of this topic. Guess I’m just an incorrigible lateral thinker.
Before I go off on my huff though, I will try to make the point that I DID think was pertinent to this conversation : That I think (you need not agree) that the sugars and artificial flavors and additives in soda (relevant topic) and other non-nourishing “foods” (off-topic) primarily function in such sodas and foods for their addictive qualities in order to disguise the fact of their otherwise low nutritional value,and keep people hooked into eating and buying them. It’s not lost on me that these tend to be common drinks and foods of the poor in our country, providing cheap profits for the industry and poor health for people (regardless of whether they do or don’t contain neurotoxins.) So, I don’t see it as a hugely detrimental thing if these are not included in the list of foods available for purchase with food stamps as long as better (and more generous) food options are available and accessible. I know it’s a stretch that they will be made more available and accessible in the current climate, but there you are. Full circle. Bring on the sodas. But don’t expect different results. Obesity, diabetes, etc, etc,
If it makes my opinion any more credible, I’ve never had to rely on food stamps, but I’ve lived semi-poor in the U.S for years in earlier days and I also lived (though voluntarily) where both food and water were very hard to come by…had to transport them bodily or by motorcycle over long distances, and store without refrigeration, and cook over an open wood-fire. (Wood also had to be carried.) I know something about the experience of inconvenience and food scarcity. Not theoretical to me.
Sometimes, it helps me to leave a specific frame of reference, view a broader context for the purpose of understanding the former anew. I forget that others are annoyed and prefer a more linear path… If I derail, it’s not my intent.
Good night.
First of all the complaint that $4 a gallon for juice was too expensive is bogus…juice is loaded with sugar and not a necessary staple. The idea that low income households can not afford to eat healthy is bunk! Eating healthy on a budget involves home cooking and shopping the weekly store sales. Its actually quite easy to do. I am very into healthy eating and have a house of boys! Each evening we sit down to dinner and because I want to teach my boys about smart budgeting and smart eating, I often announce how much the dinner cost. I go through each food item which is most always a protein, a vegetable and often a starch. Many nights we feed four people a healthy dinner (three men) for $10-$12. But, I will stress one must prepare meals at home and cook to be healthy and affordable. This is something people in our country used to do every day.
The beverage each evening is water because that is the healthiest option. From the tap.
One thing that has been forgotten by some is that human beings have evolved over thousands of years to crave high fat and sweet and salty foods because for thousands of years, that was how we ensured our survival individually and as a species up until very recent times.
While food scientists have created more ways to make “junk food” more compelling, most of the attractions behind “junk food” or “unhealthy food” is the right combination of high fat, sweet, and/or salty flavors which has existed and proven compelling for thousands of years.
In short, it’s far better to create indirect positive incentives to encourage healthy eating rather than employ the stick approach of banning/scolding who don’t comply with the prevailing standards of what’s “proper” to those of the puritanically inclined upper-middle class and their fellow-travelers.
Especially considering if one examines history, this pattern of behavior goes hand-in-hand with a high degree of hypocrisy of “do as I say, not as I do”.
It’s also much easier for those of us with the luxury of being upper/upper-middle/middle class to acts as scolds towards those lower on the SES scale who don’t live up to our standards while forgetting that if one’s subjected to actually living the life of someone who is low-income or worse…near-starvation…we’re unlikely to have the time, energy, or the mental space to make all the “right” decisions.
This is even more so with folks who live in “food deserts” where there’s little/no decent grocery store within easy walking or public transit distance…assuming public transit is reliable or even exists in those areas. And if one doesn’t have a car or whose car hasn’t been repaired for years because of lack of finances as was common in some areas I’ve lived in, that can be a near insurmountable obstacle in itself among many others.
I’ve got a hunch. Perhaps the reason why soda (or pop as I call it!) is consumed in low, middle, upper income groups is that people like the taste?!
On this thread, some people are saying that the poor have little control over the impulses that evolution has created.
But on the “slut shaming” thread, some of the very same people are (IMO mostly correctly) saying that men should have absolute control over their actions, even when women act and dress in ways that are well known to trigger sexual desire in men, triggers that have also evolved through millenia.
Can someone explain to me why men are expected to have absolute control but the poor are not?
What all do some of you eat, just quinoa, kale, and sprouts?? Some of the posts here about diet are a little sanctimonious.
“shopping the weekly store sales” I agree with you about the cooking from scratch. As far as shopping the sales, @Empireapple, I do the same although I technically don’t “need” to from a financial perspective. Some of it is old habits from leaner times, some of it is looking to save a buck regardless of where it comes from. However, many of those who are poor do live in food deserts and lack access to grocery stores that offer specials and such.
Combine the lack of access with lack of time and knowledge and its no surprise we are where we are in this country food-wise, especially given the corporate food industries and government policies. It’s obvious to me that our government, through its food and health policies in general, doesn’t value the health and well-being of Americans.
As much as I love the Obamas, I’ve been disappointed in their progress on the food issue. A lot of their focus was band-aids and wasn’t aggressive enough, IMO.
@doschicos wrote
We eat a lot of simple foods. Chicken sauteed with basil (i keep a plant on the counter year round) olive oil and lemon juice. Steamed zucchini with parmesan cheese, french bread was dinner last night. I made brownies from scratch with pecans, and I add oatmeal and drop the sugar content-that was dessert, which happens about 1x a week.
Made bacon and eggs this morning for everyone-bacon was the low sodium/no nitrate kind. Added cheddar cheese to the eggs so they didn’t need to be salted (cheese tastes saltier than it is) Had fresh oranges as a side vs. orange juice.
We eat a lot of yogurt-a LOT of yogurt. I drink a lot of unsweetened kefir. Eat a lot of fruit, eat a lot of fresh vegetables. I drink a ton of different teas, none of which are sweetened.
I tend to be one of those people who shops the periphery of the grocery store. The girls will help me with shopping and prepping food for dinner at night. It takes less time if you plan ahead, and the prep is time to talk about the day and to pass down how to cook to them. It’s better than sitting in front of the tv at night(we dumped cable last summer, so if you want to be mesmerized by tv you have to hunt a little harder for it-I still watch the Bachelor and Modern Family).
I don’t shop the sales-it takes too much time and the food is usually crap. I stick with simple stuff, buy a lot when it goes on sale (like Publix will do bogo stuff on good things like chicken and fish), and get the girls to help me prep it. Husband gladly does cleanup and dish duty, although I’m sure he’d help me prep if I asked him to do that.
When we were young and very very poor, our go-to protein was canned chunk light tuna. I think we must have eaten that at least three or four times a week. I had a box out on the back porch that I had repurposed from something else that I grew vegetables in. I didn’t get a manicure until I was 30 (to give you an idea of how tight money was while we were in school and working).
I thnk bad eating habits are culturally ingrained in America, because I see a lot of my upper-middle class friends eating stuff that is just junk, or subsisting on diet cokes.
Similar to another poster upthread, I lived overseas in a poor country for many years. The majority of the population were very poor and they did not spend their money on junk food or sodas. The wealthiest of the population were often overweight and the poor were typically very lean but by no means starving.
In this country we eat too much and it seems most of it is bought and warmed up. The hungry kids in the US do not look like hungry kids I saw in very poor countries. Some of my family here in the US are poor and one of the kids is overweight. He drinks soft drinks very often and seldom has a meal that is prepared at home. They do not live in a food desert.
Can someone help me clarify a possible misconception I have?
This article was about people on SNAP correct? And it is possible that the majority of people on SNAP do not work full time? If so, then why cannot these people cook healthy meals?
I get why a family with dual incomes would buy some frozen pre-made foods or packaged foods. They are pressed for time and it is easier to pop some frozen fish and french fries in the oven and feed the family or pop a frozen pizza in the oven. I also understand a quick stop at the supermarket to buy some pre-made food to bring home.
But if one is not working then why can they not prepare healthy foods them selves and bake with healthy ingredients?
As we learned in Marketing class, the whole reason one pays more for these prepared items is because you are paying for the convenience. You are paying to save time because that is what you are short on when you are working full time. But if one is not working, then there is not need to do this.
Thoughts?
Actually, the majority of non-disabled people on SNAP are working.
@MotherOfDragons You eat and cook similarly to the way I do. But there are indulgences - the bacon, the brownies (though from scratch and made healthier), french bread (white flour?! [-( 
) etc. I don’t buy heavily processed foods or convenience items aside from a few crackers and such, yet we still have our treats which aren’t really healthy. Some of the talk here makes it sound like that stuff shouldn’t be allowed either - at least not if you are on SNAP.
BTW, you can shop the sales while still shopping the perimeter. If haddock is on sale that week, I might choose that instead of salmon for dinner. Our grocery store always has weekly specials on certain proteins, dairy items, fruits and vegetables every week, not just the processed stuff.
As for the fallacy that it is not possible to eat healthy when poor…The recipient book was a capstone project for this student…
https://cookbooks.leannebrown.com/good-and-cheap.pdf
[quote]
I designed these recipes to fit the budgets of people living on SNAP, the US program that used to be called food stamps. If you’re on SNAP, you already know that the bene t formulas are complicated, but the rule of thumb is that you end up with $4 per person, per day to spend on food.
The costs for each recipe are based on two sources. For the pantry items on the following pages, I collected prices from four grocery stores in Inwood, a relatively low-income neighborhood on the north tip of Manhattan. For speci c spices and a wider variety of fruits and vegetables, I looked at online grocery stores or nationwide averages collected by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The prices for fruits and vegetables assume that they’re roughly in season, when you can get the best deals. This means, unfortunately, that you’ll pay a lot more if you want to make peach coffee cake in February. I talk more about shopping in season on the following pages.
The estimates are, by necessity, a snapshot of place and time. Costs will vary in other cities, other neighborhoods, even just other stores. Please think of the numbers as a guideline, not a guarantee.
More than in most cookbooks, my recipes are exible and encourage substitution based on availability, price, and personal tastes. A strict budget requires exibility and a willingness to say, “that’s a good deal this week, so it’s what I’ll be cooking!” Don’t worry, you’ll pick up the tricks quickly.
A few recipes call for fancy kitchen equipment, but in my work with low-income families in New York, I’ve found that items like blenders, food processors, and electric mixers are fairly common. I did not, however, attempt to tackle the very real situation of people who have no kitchen, no equipment, and no space to prepare food. I simply cannot hope to do those issues justice within the bounds of one cookbook. Let’s all agree that we need to keep striving to address those other issues that make it dif cult for so many people to eat well. [/quoye]
SNAP eligibility rules: https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligibility
It certainly is possible for a household whose adult(s) work full time in low pay jobs to be eligible for SNAP.
This is one of those situations where I think you have to live the life before making proclamations.
Remember most people spend 6% of their food income on junk. So that extra 4% might very well be because of inability to shop the sales. Most local corner shops don’t have decent sales.
I shop well. When somethings on sale i buy multiples. I use coupons. I comparison shop different stores. Blah, blah, blah…
But it takes time, education, access and extra money in order to shop well. Something that people barely getting by don’t have. Some people eat up hours a day just commuting on public transportation. Many people are single parents. I’m exhausted just thinking about it.
Maybe it is something you teach in school. How to eat healthy on little money from the corner store.
My thought…leave people alone. There are many more important things than someone spending 4% more on junk food than you do…