Solid High School Course Plan? Areas for Improvement? [high school in Ontario, Canada]

Context
I’m a Canadian. Currently in Grade 9. These courses are based on the Ontario Secondary School curriculum.

My school offers AP courses, including AP Chemistry, AP Biology, AP Calculus, AP English Literature and Composition, and AP Computer Science A.

I plan on applying to T30 universities (primarily in the U.S.) as a Computer Science major.

I’m considering dual enrollment.

Courses
Grade 9

  • MTH1W / Mathematics / Math
  • SNC1W / Science / Science
  • CGC1W / Exploring Canadian Geography / Geography
  • FSF1D / Core French / French
  • ENL1W / English / English
  • PPL1O / Healthy Active Living Education / Gym + Health
  • ADA1O / Drama / Drama
  • BEM1O / Building the Entrepreneurial Mindset / Business

Grade 10

  • MPM2D Gifted / Foundations of Mathematics (Gifted) / Math
  • SNC2D Gifted / Science (Gifted) / Science
  • ENG2D Gifted / English (Gifted) / English
  • CHC2D Gifted / Canadian History Since World War I (Gifted) / History
  • CHV2O / Civics and Citizenship / Civics
  • GLC2O / Career Studies / Career Studies
  • TAS2O / Technology and the Skilled Trades / Tech
  • ICD2O / Digital Technology and Changes in the Innovating World / Computer Science
  • FSF2D / Core French / French

Grade 11

  • MCR3U Gifted / Functions (Gifted) / Math
  • ENG3U Gifted / English (Gifted) / English
  • SPH3U Gifted / Physics (Gifted) / Physics
  • CIE3M / The Individual and the Economy / Economics
  • FSF3U / Core French / French
  • TEJ3M / Computer Engineering Technology / Tech
  • CHA3U / American History / History
  • ICD3U / Introduction to Computer Science / Computer Science

Grade 12

  • MDM4U / Mathematics of Data Management / Math
  • MHF4UP / Pre-AP Advanced Functions / Math
  • MCV4UP / AP Calculus / Math
  • ENG4UP / AP English Literature & Composition / English
  • ICS4UP / AP Computer Science / Computer Science
  • FSF4U / Core French / French
  • TEJ4M / Computer Engineering Technology / Tech
  • SPH4U / Physics / Physics

To me your coursework looks fine. It seems that you will get as far as AP Calculus, which is fine. I also see four years of French. In the US they will consider this as counting as a foreign language, and four years of it is also good.

Does you high school not have AP Physics? Also, can you take “Pre-AP Advanced Functions / Math” and “AP Calculus” at the same time? Are these considered independent parallel courses, or is one a prerequisite for the other? You will want to do very well on all of the prerequisites for calculus before you take calculus.

One thing that I do not see here is a discussion of budget. University in the US is EXPENSIVE. There are only a tiny number of universities that meet full need for international students, and all of them are very highly competitive for admissions, even for the strongest students. At this point in the US there are already some private universities that are very close to US$100,000 per year, and the cost has been increasing relatively rapidly. By the time that you get there four years of university in the US could cost close to US$500,000, and of course the exchange rate is not in your favour. Some top schools in the US do meet full need for international students, but you would need to get your parents to run the NPC to see whether or not you would qualify for financial aid, and if so how much. If you Google “net price calculator Harvard university” you will for example find the NPC for Harvard.

However, you have multiple universities in Canada that are excellent for CS, and also excellent for other related topics such as mathematics and AI and machine learning. Toronto and Waterloo come to mind, although of course Queens, McMaster, McGill, UBC, and multiple other universities are also excellent. Both employers and graduate schools in the US know how strong the Canadian universities are. Toronto of course counts as “Top 30” both overall and for CS, and Waterloo is “top 30” for CS. The other Canadian universities on this list are not very far behind.

Which leads to another issue. As an international student in the US, you will most likely be required to return home to Canada after graduation from a university in the US. Getting a degree from a university in the US does not make it easy to get a job in the US. At least in my experience from many, many years ago, as a Canadian who graduated from MIT, it is probably easier to get a job in Canada if you graduate from university in Canada rather than graduating from a “top 30” (or even “top 5”) university in the US.

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I can take Pre-AP Advanced Functions and AP Calculus concurrently. My school does not have AP Physics.

Budget isn’t a problem.

Issue with Canadian universities is there aren’t that many that are T30, except for University of Waterloo, University of Toronto, and McGill, which are extremely hard to get into (uWaterloo CS might even be harder than a few ivies).

As for finding a job, is it U.S. citizenship that is hard to get, or the job itself? ← Either way, I’m looking to start my own business, so I’m primarily looking for connections.

Which T30s are you considering — the top 30 national universities on the USNWR list, or the top 30 CS schools based on CSRankings or the Brown aggregate list? Many schools on the latter list tend to have easier admissions.

Landing a job as an international student is challenging, and CS roles are becoming increasingly competitive—even for U.S. citizens. You’ll need an employer willing to sponsor your visa.

It’ll be hard to do this legally in the US as a non citizen/PR.

Many (most?) Ontario high schools run on a 2 semester system so students would typically take MHF 4U - Advanced Functions (pre-Calc) in first semester of grade 12, and MCV 4U - Calculus and Vectors, in 2nd semester. A few years ago they rejigged the curriculum though and Advanced Functions and Calculus & Vectors can now be taken concurrently (though most students don’t).

My question to you though is since US colleges have application dates before the OP will have final marks for their first semester courses are complete (final grades are released in February but they will have midterm marks), and since they will not be writing AP exams until May of their senior year, will there be any benefit to them to taking AP courses when applying to US colleges?

Planned and in-progress courses will be reported on applications (and matriculants need to send final transcripts showing those courses with sufficiently high grades).

AP scores may also give advanced placement, credit, and/or subject credit for the subjects tested on.

I don’t really care about any particular website (although I am quite fond of QS World Rankings for CS) but rather any school that is considered T30 by general consensus or a reputable source.

I’m not sure how difficult citizenship will be; I have an American family member.

Is it possible and is there any benefit to applying for citizenship right now, as a 9th grader?

Also, would there be any benefit to self-studying for a few AP exams whose courses I won’t/can’t be taking?

You cannot directly become a citizen. You need to apply for permanent residency first (and then wait 3 or 5 years). Is this an immediate family member who can sponsor you?

The other pathways to residency (employment based and through marriage) aren’t really realistic for a 9th grader.

I suggest worrying less about all these things right now, and focusing on having the strongest high school experience you can put together - by doing things you love doing and excelling in them. That’s your best path to selective schools.

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Yes, this is an immediate family member.

I’m not worrying about these things and am interested in a strong high school experience - these things could be important to handle though. :slight_smile:

I agree it is really too early to be deciding which (if any) US colleges would actually be a good fit for you. Think comprehensively about how you want to use these years to develop as a person, not just as a student but also physically, ethically, socially, emotionally, and so on. Explore your interests, including in depth as appropriate. Be open to evolving your understanding of yourself and of the world and what sort of paths make sense for you. Do all that and if it turns out some US colleges would make sense for you, then you will be in a good position to apply to such colleges.

As for your curriculum plan, are Bio and Chem included in your Grade 9 and 10 “Science” classes? You seem very CS/Physics/Engineering focused after that, which might be OK but at least in the US, I would want to make sure you had also taken what I would call HS-level Chem and Bio.

I’ve explored my interests already, decided on how I want to develop, and decided on a path.

Yes, Bio and Chem are included in my Grade 9 and 10 science classes.

Clarification: The Grade 9 Science course has only chemistry; the Grade 10 Science course has chemistry and biology.

If need be, I can switch out 2 years of computer engineering courses for chemistry and AP Chemistry.

But you are something like 14 or 15, correct?

One of the relative virtues of the US system of higher education is we tend to accomodate continued exploration of interests much later than most systems. So, in the US, at many of the “top” colleges it is normal for you not to even decide on a major until the second term of sophomore year, and some people change majors again after that and yet still graduate in four years.

And then many US graduate and professional programs are very flexible about college majors. And people often work before grad and professional school in a job that does not end up career track for them. So your decision on what to specialize in for a graduate or professional degree that launches your actual professional career could come years later still.

All this exploration comes at a cost, though, both financially for the institutions who make this exploratory model possible, and then in terms of opportunity costs for US kids who are still exploring when kids in other countries are already specializing.

OK, so possibly you are right and you are done exploring at age 14/15 and ready to decide on a specialization that will carry right through higher education and on into a professional career. But if so, the US higher education system may largely be just a slower and more costly system than is appropriate for you, particularly with the Canadian system as an alternative.

But another possibility is you may come to realize that you could still benefit from a lot more time to explore, in which case the US system might make more sense for you. But then almost necessarily, you would not really know yet at your current age what institutions within the US system would make the most sense for you.

Consistent with the above analysis, I think a lot of more selective US colleges might prefer a more obviously broad science education. But some might not care either way, and possibly a few programs might actually prefer the focus on computer engineering.

I’m 15.

I understand that most colleges there have an exploratory model, but I wouldn’t say this negatively affects me. Sure, you lose some specialization opportunities, but it makes you a more well-rounded person overall and still provides you with broader opportunities related to your field, which can still come in useful for a specialization ← I am interested in creating businesses, so I believe this would actually be more beneficial than not.

Which schools would you say prefer a broader science education over the narrower focus on computer engineering, and vice-versa?

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I would warn you that most true entrepreneurs I have encountered are somewhat skeptical of the ability of schools to really teach you how to be a successful entrepreneur. According to them, it is mostly a combination of your own personal attributes, and then often work experience where you get to know a business, clearly see a market opportunity, and have the established relationships you need to create a business to make use of that opportunity.

For sure, though, I know people in business generally who think a more general “liberal arts tradition” sort of undergrad education is better than a more specialized technical sort of undergrad education. This attitude is part of why certain “top” US undergrads who send a lot of graduates into business, and who indeed might well have “top” graduate business programs, do not actually have undergraduate business programs. They basically see undergrad as too early for that sort of focus, even for people interested in business as a career.

So if that sort of liberal arts tradition undergrad education sounds good to you, that would be another reason to be exploring the possibility of a US undergrad education. If so, I would indeed suggest you might want to think about broadening your science curriculum. And you might also want to reflect on how you would present yourself in essays and such, including whether you could articulate an understanding and appreciation of that liberal arts tradition.

I was sort of just addressing this, but there are colleges in the US which have very strong STEM departments and lots of undergrad STEM majors, but which nonetheless see STEM for undergraduates as best taught within a strong version of the liberal arts tradition. That name is a bit misleading, though, because more properly it would be called the “liberal arts and sciences” tradition. And that is because a broad background in at least math and the natural sciences has long been considered a core part of that tradition. But not necessarily as much technical subjects, particularly as taught at the secondary school level.

Anyway, the US colleges that have a strong version of the liberal arts and sciences tradition actually include a wide range of what are usually considered “top” colleges in the US, including many famous private research universities, further including even colleges like MIT. It also includes most “liberal arts colleges,” which should again mostly really be called “liberal arts and sciences” colleges, as many of them are very strong in at least science and math, usually these days including a math-heavy version of CS.

Then there are US colleges which are maybe less strong on the liberal arts and sciences tradition, at least if you are not in their Arts and Sciences subdivision, such as if you are in their Engineering subdivision instead. They will typically have some “general education” requirements, but they may not be seen as central to your academic experience as other colleges would see them.

Most of these would not be among the most famous US universities outside the US, although many of them actually do provide things like high-quality engineering educations and such.

But there are always variations and exceptions. So, as noted, MIT takes the liberal arts and science tradition very seriously. Caltech, on the other hand, is maybe a little more interested in kids who are trying to rush along through to a specialization. They’d still want to know you were adequately prepared for First Year Biology and First Year Chemistry (part of their core curriculum), but possibly your planned Canadian courses would be adequate for that purpose. Or possibly not–you might want to consult with someone who actually really knows.

But generally, I think if you had good qualifications and were willing to pay what they charged Canadians, then lots of US colleges with excellent engineering programs would probably not be too picky about your exact science courses. However, again most of those would not be among the most Internationally famous.

Like, take Iowa State for example. Great engineering college, and here are their requirements for Canadian admissions:

As I understand it, I think your plan would probably work out just fine for Iowa State.

But to come full circle, would you actually prefer Iowa State to your Canadian options when the time comes? Maybe, but not coincidentally, I think public Canadian universities are often good in the same basic ways public US universities like Iowa State are good.

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