<p>Many good suggestions have been made. It’s pretty clear the OP and his S are looking for a “silver bullet” to make this all go away. Ain’t happening. An F doesn’t mean “Oh gee I missed a couple of homework assignments and I promise I won’t do it again.” And if a student’s goal is Notre Dame it doesn’t mean “Oh well, lot’s of people get F’s … but I’m not gonna worry about it 'cause IT’S SUMMERTIME!!!” As Marite pointed out, the first half C+ was a major red flag. And oldfort’s suggestion of taking a summer course at cc is exactly on point. That nothing has been done in the seven months since the first half grade is telling. I’m not ready to accuse the OP of being the T-word, but I’m getting closer with each subsequent post.</p>
<p>Flagship state universities typically do not look at individual grades; instead, they focus on overall GPA, class rank and standardized test scores. I’m guessing the 3.8 diescribed by the OP is weighted, so to make any reasonable assessment I’d want to know a) what the unweighted GPA is and b) how the specific schools weight honors/AP grades.</p>
<p>One problem might conceivably be distribution requirements for admission. I see from the website that Illinois-Champaign requires 3-3.5 years of math and recommends 4, and to get to 4 the child is going to have to figure out some way to make up for the credit he didn’t get in pre-calc. Pre-calc is required for admission to specialized science majors, but that’s easy to avoid; just don’t declare a major on the application, or make up something innocuous.</p>
<p>On an only tangentially-related note: not to rain on anyone’s parade, but got to wonder how well the child will be able to compete with the hard core math/science types that typically populate the pre-med curriculum.</p>
<p>You are right about the competitive nature of the pre-med curriculum. It is wise to go in with eyes wide open, for certain. </p>
<p>I don’t want to be too discouraging. My own son had Algebra III for his final math course- spring of his senior year. Math has never been a strong point and when senioritis kicked in- look out. He did abysmally in the course- but his admission wasn’t revoked and he didn’t even get a letter asking for an explanation. Different schools are going to have different ways of looking at things. I would just encourage the OP to have his son cast a bit wider net and come up with a strategy to be successful in college, regardless of his major or pre-med intentions.</p>
<p>OP’s S will have to get through a year of calc for pre-med requirements. I would drop a senior year elective and take Pre-Calc again – and not add it as an outside study course.</p>
<p>Does the OP’s S need this course as a graduation requirement? Retaking a failed class second semester senior year w/no attempts to remediate since Jan. of junior year seems like a disaster in the making to me, esp. if he doesn’t pass.</p>
<p>How has the OP’s son handled chem and physics (AP, honors or regular?) with a shaky math foundation?</p>
<p>Sorry if someone else has already said this, but…</p>
<p>(1)If you think your S can really up the grade, this might be a case in which a gap year should be seriously considered. </p>
<p>(2) If your son really can retake the course somewhere else this fall, I’d suggest signing him up for the SAT II Math2c. If he took it and scored well, I think it would help reduce the impact of the F.</p>
<p>So NewHope33, where exactly was I asking for a Silver Bullet and what is the T-word as you threatened to call me? These are the questions I asked and I will copy my own quote:</p>
<p>“My questions are: How much effect would this have on college admissions? Would it be better to apply later to come schools after his Senior 1st semester grades are in? He has lots of Honors and AP classes Senior year.”</p>
<p>Since you know nothing about my family or how many kids I have and how many jobs I have and what other things my family does on a daily basis or what educational background I have or anything about me. I will ignore anything you have to say and discount you as an A@s who sits around on line trying to judge people in some way.</p>
<p>It’s funny how many brave nerds this and many other website forums can pull out of their parents basements.</p>
<p>You’re right, we don’t know a lot of things about you. But based on the information you provided, we’ve all tried to offer you suggestions. Whether you take them or not is up to you. There are a lot of experienced parents (and probably students) offering their thoughts on what may or may not be helpful. Best of luck.</p>
<p>I appreciate suggestions of help but not someone threatening to call me a name and implying that I’m not responsible enough etc…</p>
<p>I don’t think that’s what he’s doing. Sometimes when people are new to CC, they pretend to be other than they’re not- an internet “■■■■■”. Someone who likes to stir things up. I know it can be difficult at times to keep up with everything going on but people here really are trying to help. </p>
<p>Can you tell us anything more about your son that might be helpful in making suggestions? What science courses has he taken and enjoyed? Does he have any athletic ability that he would be recruited for?</p>
<p>“My questions are: How much effect would this have on college admissions? Would it be better to apply later to come schools after his Senior 1st semester grades are in? He has lots of Honors and AP classes Senior year.”</p>
<p>OK, let’s do it by the numbers:
- He won’t have time to remedy the F before January 2010, so EA and ED are out.
- The HS is on-record as supporting the teacher … the F stands.
- The student failed to take immediate remedial action. (But this might be a good subject for a supplementary essay.)
- Failing pre-calc Junior year means the student will have just three years of math, max.
- Failing pre-calc Junior year means colleges will have to base their RD decision on the Senior mid-year grade … alone.
- Failing pre-calc calls into question whether the student is ready for college level work.
- Blaming the teacher suggests that the student isn’t taking responsibility for his own education.</p>
<p>So yeah, it will have a significant effect on college admission. Yeah, it would be better to apply RD than to send an EA/ED application that says “I’m great, please ignore the F.” </p>
<p>BTW, my post was intended to be HELPFUL. There’s no easy way out of this situation. And I’m surprised than nowhere in your OP was steps you and the student have already taken to ameliorate the negative impact of that Honors pre-calc course.</p>
<p>I’ve gotten a oouple of good suggestions so far on how to possibly overcome the F that I didn’t even ask for. For those more positive suggestions I thank you. Beyond that, I don’t have any interest in sharing any more information about me or my son. This will be my last post.</p>
<p>Where is any of this comment supposed to be helpful? It’s taking some basic facts and trying imply a number of things about me and my son. Within my thread I mentioned some things that were tried and some advice given by a GC that I maybe shouldn’t have followed. Believe me, he has been punished severly for this F and none of it was ignored as taking any responsibility from him. Other then commenting on that, I have no interest in what you have to say because you have a foundation of criticism in everything you say. Anything more and I’d be glad to discuss in private but I wish it was face to face.</p>
<p>"Many good suggestions have been made. It’s pretty clear the OP and his S are looking for a “silver bullet” to make this all go away. Ain’t happening. An F doesn’t mean “Oh gee I missed a couple of homework assignments and I promise I won’t do it again.” And if a student’s goal is Notre Dame it doesn’t mean “Oh well, lot’s of people get F’s … but I’m not gonna worry about it 'cause IT’S SUMMERTIME!!!” As Marite pointed out, the first half C+ was a major red flag. And oldfort’s suggestion of taking a summer course at cc is exactly on point. That nothing has been done in the seven months since the first half grade is telling. I’m not ready to accuse the OP of being the T-word, but I’m getting closer with each subsequent post. "</p>
<p>Let’s all just relax.
Mr. firefighter40-this forum can get intense. Most posters do wish to be helpful. It can seem like we are ganging up on you. It’s the anonymous nature of the Internet.
NewHope33-insightful and succinct as usual, but OP needs us to tread gently in offering suggestions.
Now don’t flame me, I’m Switzerland.</p>
<p>Firefighter, I suggest you and your son try to figure out why he got the F. Did he not do homework? Did he fail tests? Should he have studied more? Worked more problems? Gotten help from the teacher, a tutor, or friends? Made a study group?</p>
<p>My son had problems with Calculus. At first, I wanted to blame it on the teacher, the school, this, that, whatever. I was wrong to think that way: he had the same problems when he retook the class in a completely different setting. Learn from my mistake. Figure out what your son should have done differently. Even if he had a bad teacher, if he is the kind of kid who is cut out for science/pre-med, many people would expect him to have passed the class. Precalculus is usually not that difficult for science-y kids.</p>
<p>Does your son think he actually knows the material, but somehow didn’t pass the class? If so, as someone suggested, he should take the Math II SAT II. It tests Pre-Calculus. If your son does well on that test, at least he could claim that the bad grade doesn’t represent his true knowledge.</p>
<p>The only reason the teacher red flag has held any water with me is because of how many other kids I know from his class that struggled. These are kids that I’ve seen in the accelerated classes since like 3rd grade with my twins. My gut reaction was to tell my son to suck it up and deal with it. You aren’t always going to get teachers that you jive with and some can be more diffucult then others. However, when you see so many kids struggling and some quirky methods of dealing with homework and quizes, it all makes me wonder.</p>
<p>The question about him knowing the material I would say I truly don’t know. His math ACT score wasn’t as high as his other scores and he always was a stronger math student in the past. The teacher always seemed to be sending homework home and then grading the homework and only going over the work that kids complained about. That seemed like a bizarre way to teach. My son didn’t complain enough because he wasn’t used to ever doing that and has now admitted he was often too embarassed to complain. </p>
<p>I’m in the process of asking the school about the on line options per another previous suggestion from Spidergirl above. If the school will allow this, I’m sure my son will work his little but off to make this right. Going on many college visits this summer has really made him realize where he wants to be. If I could do it again, I might have taken him on college visits after his sophomore year to light a stronger fire then he has had.</p>
<p>He’s prepping to take his ACT again in Sept and is going to apply to a couple of back up schools locally that are his sisters fav’s. This will also help is see what some schools are saying about the F in comparison to his overall respectable record.</p>
<p>That sounds like a great plan. Please let us know how things turn out.</p>
<p>[ALEKS</a> – Assessment and Learning, K-12, Higher Education, Automated Tutor, Math](<a href=“http://www.aleks.com%5DALEKS”>http://www.aleks.com) has a fine online program for pre-calculus. It’s self-paced and students work to mastery (that is, a student has to do each problem type correctly three times in a row to move on). It only costs $20/month for as long as your child needs it, and I believe they offer a free intro. Your son might give it a try.</p>
<p>Jonri…Gap years for boys…great suggestion (especially if young in the year).</p>
<p>firefighter40 -</p>
<p>Don’t be surprised if the school balks at the online suggestions. My experience is that bureaucrats are not typically comfortable with new or alternative ways of doing things. Public schools can be very challenging. They are profoundly slow to admit that one of their own has failed to deliver a reasonable job performance. They are quick to circle the wagons. Additionally, alternatives are competition. You let one child do something online, and perhaps more kids will follow suit (even – gasp – choose to be home schooled entirely, thereby denying the district the federal funding for that student).</p>
<p>In my experience, most schools are very reticent about changing a high school transcript once something is on it. There are good reasons for that, of course. I think if you choose to do something online, you need to ensure your DS is not overloaded. Also, assuming you determine that having that better grade will offset the F and provide entrance into higher math, if the school disagrees it should not deter you.</p>
<p>Regarding posts which have left you frustrated, let me suggest that you stick with us. Many very helpful people on CC have invested time and thought trying to assist another person, only to discover in the end that the individual was a ■■■■■ (the online equivalent, sometimes, of having one’s leg pulled). Despite challenging interactions which can come up from time to time, CC is fantastic place for advice (and a fun place to be when you are blowing off something you should be doing).</p>